Page 5 | To wonder why its become ok to be so overtly cruel and unprofessional to overweight patients, and why do we (overweight patients) tolerate it?

TheGoogleMum · 06/10/2020 20:58

Yeah when I was pregnant I got told they couldn't see well with ultrasound because of my weight, they could have sugar-coated it a little and it seems to me thet got all the information they needed. I had to have glucose test more than once too (negative). I was allowed a water birth though and I managed to get out (the hard part is being exhausted and trying to get up while having regular contractions isnt easy, the being in water bit wasn't the problem). I was and still am obese according to bmi but not massive (size 14). Helps that I'm short maybe?

MonkeyPuddle · 06/10/2020 20:58

I’m fat and pregnant, I’m 38w and at my last appointment at 36w my midwife asked me to get weighed, I’ve put on 4kg from my booking weight. Which I don’t think is too shabby. She told me ‘that’s not too bad for someone your size.’ Er, fuck off love. I’m fat, but I’m not an idiot.

I asked her what she meant by that. She completely stumbled over her words, couldn’t find the words to express what she meant because that would mean she would have to explain she just insulted me to my face.

I’m a nurse and around half of my role is helping patients with their diabetes, I would never judge my patients for being overweight, cos it’s not my bloody place to do so. It’s my job to support people, same as the midwives, and quite frankly if they cannot offer that support in line with the guidance set out in the NMC code then they should look at leaving the profession.

madcatladyforever · 06/10/2020 21:00

I work in the NHS and was actually saying to a friend earlier that so many people I've worked with here are terrible communicators and have borderline personality disorders. It makes you wonder how they got the jobs. PaLS everytime. I won't put up with it.

Haenow · 06/10/2020 21:03

Of course all women should be treated with dignity and respect but @Graphista hoisting a soaking wet, potentially critically ill pregnant woman takes too much time. It’s an unacceptable risk. I’ve hoisted many people before. It’s not a quick fix even if the hoist is right next to you.

SospanFrangipan · 06/10/2020 21:10

A sonographer wrote in my notes at the 20 week scan 'difficult scan due to patient BMI' I was seething. Little did she know I had lost 6 stone in order to fall pregnant. She didn't make it known that she was struggling so scan me, and also appeared to see what she needed to in the 15 minutes I was in there!

wigglerose · 06/10/2020 21:12

@SospanFrangipan Sounds like she was unnecessarily arse-covering.

DemolitionBarbie · 06/10/2020 21:12

I'm size 16, BMI 33 or so, in the medically obese but socially just a bit fat category.

Midwives were always fine to me, there was mention of my weight to see if I wanted help from a scheme to lose it, but never any snide comments. I was offered water birth. Given factual information about how weight was a risk factor without it being judgemental. So not all midwives are like that!

lyralalala · 06/10/2020 21:13

It pretty much sums it up that there are so many people telling the OP - who was in the room, heard the tone, seen the gesture and the reaction of the other midwife - that she has misunderstood the midwife

The issue isn't with Midwives, or any HCP, informing an obese patient of something that can't be done because of their weight. It's about the way it's done and the nastiness in the tone that comes with it.

In my last pregnancy, which was very emotional for various reasons including knowing there was an issue with the baby's health, two midwives asked me what my birth plan was. I said "Well... In an ideal world I'd play classical music and have a water birth, but..." The elder of the two midwives laughed and said "Don't be ridiculous, women like you can't have water births."

Firstly, she wasn't even listening to what I was saying. I knew I couldn't have a water birth even if I was a size 8 because of the anticipated problems. And secondly if I had wanted a waterbirth there is a way to tell someone they can't that doesn't involve being downright fucking rude.

picklecustard · 06/10/2020 21:14

I’ve had some fabulous midwives but also have experienced rudeness and a lack of manners that would considered unacceptable when using any other service, why is it seemingly okay for them to talk to you in a way that a checkout lady or waitress would most likely get in big trouble for if they spoke to a customer in the same way/made a similar comment.

IMO there’s no excuse:

PatriciaPerch · 06/10/2020 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shinyletsbebadguys · 06/10/2020 21:45

Fair play op for seeing through some of the histrionics on the thread . The water birth is a side issue. I was obese when I had ds2 and I passed out after screaming in pain on the scanning bed and it took three (including exdh) to get me to a receptacle to get me to a delivery room. Exdh was totally panicking and believe me , when hellp syndrome hit they had minutes to get ds2 out. No way would they have time to hoist in any way ( I can say that specifically because I have worked in care for 20 years , used numerous hoists and DP literally trains people in moving and positioning with hoists for a national organisation....I know hoists and ways of moving and positioning extremely well.....in some emergencies you will simply not have time for it even if the hoist is in the room).

Having said that OP you ar not wrong , you were in the room and its naive and silly to claim she meant differently when you are clear about her tone and don't actually seem defensive at all. I think like any profession you have good and bad (I absolutely credit two midwives with saving my life) I also have three that missed my blood pressure issue repeatedly an certainly risked my life. I have to say though I met more condescending midwives than in any other part of the NHS.

I had one tell me at 33 not to be a silly ridiculous girl because I was struggling to breastfeed and asked her advice. I was fortunate i didn't recieve any weight related comments in pregnancy

But

A year and a half ago i was eight stone over weight , my cholesterol was high but my ratios were perfect. I got a patronising disgustingly shaming lecture from a nurse and a gp about this. That is was a direct result of my weight. It totalled me , I went on to put another half a stone on because I spiralled completely and felt disgusting and awful

Eventually I picked myself up and due to an unrelated trigger started to lose weight.

18 months later I have lost the 8 stone. I recently had blood tests done. Almost exactly the same results. The gp congratulated me on the good ratio.

Now granted the second gp is a different one and particularly good and up on current research.

However the first two , that was all about their arrogance and their belief that's how fat people should be treated. See in social care , you should be shot for uttering this crap (I'm sure there are some errant carers but as an industry we are supposed to be outcome and personalise treatment led .) If I spoke to residents or service users that way I should be fired. No question.

Errr but I am afraid pp are right , I spent a long time working with substance misuse , offenders and they get treated really badly. They don't get treated better than overweight or obese people in the slightest.

Graphista · 06/10/2020 23:00

I don’t think Graphista has ever used a hoist on a soaking wet unconscious person several times actually

you're offensive to the male gaze and is this world there's no worse offence. exactly!

@hackattack that’s shit! Did you complain?

@EugenesAxe “severe” and “supportive” are patently incompatible

Being pragmatic, understanding and helpful with ideas about how to change things may do good luck getting that off anyone in the nhs at a primary care level! The “information” they give patients is often outdated, debunked nonsense! We’re even losing highly qualified dietitians and they’re being replaced by barely qualified and often narrow minded “nutritionists”

A dietitian is a registered hcp who’s profession is protected, pretty much anyone can be a “nutritionist”

@Devlesko - there’s STARTING to be research and acknowledgment that even t2 diabetes may well be

A genetic
B the cause OF weight gain rather than caused BY weight gain

Still very much in infancy but some interesting results

HackAttack · 06/10/2020 23:17

@Graphista no sadly, I was young and less willing to make a fuss, I certainly would now!

Original poster

PasstheBucket89 · 06/10/2020 23:23

Some brilliant insightful comments on here ill reply more thoroughly tommorrow x

OP posts:

hopsalong · 06/10/2020 23:26

That's shit. I'm sorry that happened. But I think the real problem here isn't just how some midwives talk to overweight patients, but how they behave in general. I am thin, became noticeably so due to hyperemesis, and had very similar comments at various points. At my glucose tolerance test I threw up, and the midwife said something along the lines of 'normally run a mile from eating sugar, do you?' Later when I was having growth scans (had a large first baby) various people felt the need to comment on how surprising it was that, despite my obvious food hatred, near anorexia etc, the baby should be capable of being big. But I've had it about other issues, too. The night after I'd given birth (c section) to DC1 a midwife came found to change my pad and stared for ages at my vagina, before cackling and asking if I'd always had a big problem with vaginal varicose veins, because that was surprising in a first pregnancy, they were shockers etc. I didn't even know I had them! (Thankfully they soon disappeared.)

And have heard much worse stories from women who have had fetal losses. There's a lack of kindness, tact, and professionalism among these potty-mouthed midwives. I don't know why they're allowed to carry on like this. Of course, not all midwives are like this. But too many, in my experience, are. Health visitors also. One made insanely inappropriate comments about the size of DS's 'wedding tackle'!

Hercwasonaroll · 06/10/2020 23:26

@Graphista Then you'll know how traumatic trying to move someone in an emergency is.

AmIACowBag · 06/10/2020 23:32

That is awful OP. so glad you complained x

MiddlesexGirl · 06/10/2020 23:40

I agree with pp that you have misinterpreted the midwife.

strappedup · 06/10/2020 23:43

@TheGoogleMum

Yeah when I was pregnant I got told they couldn't see well with ultrasound because of my weight, they could have sugar-coated it a little and it seems to me thet got all the information they needed. I had to have glucose test more than once too (negative). I was allowed a water birth though and I managed to get out (the hard part is being exhausted and trying to get up while having regular contractions isnt easy, the being in water bit wasn't the problem). I was and still am obese according to bmi but not massive (size 14). Helps that I'm short maybe?

why should they have sugarcoated it?

Antipodeancousin · 06/10/2020 23:49

I think that the medical profession understands that drugs are very addictive and especially so for people who have some type of trauma.
We don’t seem to have arrived at a conclusion to explain why people overeat to the point of obesity. I suspect food addiction and emotional eating are to blame for a lot of it but there is definitely a view that you just choose to overindulge. If you subscribe to the latter view it is quite hard to be too empathetic.

lyralalala · 06/10/2020 23:55

@MiddlesexGirl

I agree with pp that you have misinterpreted the midwife.

You think that you know better the intention than the OP - who was in the room, heard the tone, seen the hand gesture AND the reaction of the other midwife?

That's some powers of observation you've got there...

Elsewyre · 06/10/2020 23:55

@PasstheBucket89

Its something ive experienced first hand, i know others have experienced over and over again, i used to work in a community role dealing often with alchoholics and ex drug users and other forms of 'bodily abuse' and they didnt recieve the same level of contempt either. from us or higher up medical staff.

Im currently expecting, due to a raised BMI i took the glucose test, i don't mind i understand why (to test for GD) ive never ever had it in past pregnancies and dont have it this time. I don't mind taking growth scans as i do understand why, the baby is actually small, likely due to my hypermesis.

Well, ive had many microaggressions that i braved out but this was totally over the line. At the growth scan i was asked why my Glucose test wasn't on the system, i said id definitely been but not sure why, i wasn't angry just assumed a system error., but i was concerned that i could have a bad result and not know. She seemed annoyed (midwife A), Midwife B appeared who actually did my test and had written it down and seemed miffed. She said must have been a system error and she launched the notepad on the desk and said "i dont know how but its normal" gesturing at me and left. Im ashamed to say i said nothing, my face i think said it all, i quickly got up and left, i was also angry at midwife A for not saying anything, that could be U. Ive made a formal complaint, but truth is I imagine there will be little said and buisness as usual. when i go back im likely to see her again. , but i wonder why on earth its got this bad and what should i say if it arises again??.

Do you think she meant I dont know how the error happened?

And you are 100 BU to include the over weight with drug and alcohol addicts

WorraLiberty · 07/10/2020 00:01

The thing is on Mumsnet pregnant smokers are often treated like the Anti-Christ because they're addicted to nicotine and are told they're selfish for putting their babies and themselves at possible risk, because they didn't give up before TTC.

But on Mumsnet pregnant obese women are often treated completely differently and rather than be told they're selfish for putting their babies and themselves at possible risk, because they didn't lose weight before TTC, they're often given buckets of sympathy and told the HCPs are the Anti-Christ.

One is a nicotine addiction and one is (very often) a food addiction. Both can cause similar problems for the baby and mother, yet one is given way more sympathy.

But you can't expect HCPs to be like Mumsnet. They tend to tell it like it is I suppose and that can make them equally as judgemental.

MeepleMe · 07/10/2020 00:10

@SospanFrangipan

A sonographer wrote in my notes at the 20 week scan 'difficult scan due to patient BMI' I was seething. Little did she know I had lost 6 stone in order to fall pregnant. She didn't make it known that she was struggling so scan me, and also appeared to see what she needed to in the 15 minutes I was in there!

This is the opposite of all the other terrible experiences isn't it? The sonographer didn't speak rudely to you, she carried out the whole procedure without letting on that your weight was an issue to her and in fact she still managed to see all of your baby that she needed to. Surely the simple statement that a scan was technically difficult is just advising others in future that ideal views were harder to get, whether it's due to BMI or baby moving too much. Obviously the ultrasound pictures are going to be harder to see when the waves are having to pass through skin-fat-connective tissue-muscle-uterus-fluid, if one of those layers is thicker than ideal.

Graphista · 07/10/2020 00:23

@HackAttack that's a shame. Assertiveness definitely gets easier with age, assertiveness classes ideally at high school but certainly in prenatal classes would solve a lot of problems!

I was very shy and quiet as a very young adult. Various experiences toughened me up.

@Hercwasonaroll I do - and it's no excuse for refusing full and supportive care

Being civil isn't fucking sugar coating! Plus that scenario was clearly the midwife trying to cover for her own ineptitude!

And you are 100 BU to include the over weight with drug and alcohol addicts

Why?!