To think this rule is awful

[Clappingforjoy]

Dm is in a carehome and doctor has confirmed she is in the last stages of dementia and is end of life.
Visits are now allowed but only the ever the same 2 people because of covid there are 4 of us meaning 2 will never see our DM before she passes.
I'm really upset.

I would ask for the exacting ruling to see if there is any possible solution.

I can understand they have to protect other residents too and if you are walking through common areas etc. Could dm be moved to a room near an entrance or exit so that you don't need to fully enter the home?

Is there anything practical that could be done to reduce risks.

Yeah it’s barbaric & like you say, wearing masks through the entrance... You don’t even have to come into direct contact with staff. Straight into the private room. WHERE IS THE COMMON SENSE?!

But you can go shopping, or out for dinner etc etc. INSANITY.

Ridiculous when one considers the rule breaking going on “at the top”. So very sorry for you and yours.

Yeah it’s barbaric & like you say, wearing masks through the entrance... You don’t even have to come into direct contact with staff. Straight into the private room. WHERE IS THE COMMON SENSE?! Presumably you touch things in the room including the sick person. Do you think they have time to decontaminate every room after visitors? At my aunt's home that is 40 rooms. Not to mention if you give covid to a sick relative who then passes it on, I mean you are likely to get close or even touch them. At my aunt's dementia home you definitely have to have close contact with staff due to security doors that you can't open unless you are wearing a device that opens them.

I don't want my aunt to get it, it sounds a horrible death. She was suspected of having it in March but they couldn't get a test so I don't know if she had it but they definitely did have cases and deaths. I am grateful they are keeping her safe.

You can't move a dying person from 1 room to another, unless the door are wide enough to get a bed through. Also that the room is empty in the 1st place.

We can go eat out in restaurants, take public transport and visit the shops but not visit a relative who needs us - it makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm so sorry OP x

Isn't it because you wouldn't be cuddling those on public transport ?

We can go eat out in restaurants, take public transport and visit the shops but not visit a relative who needs us - it makes no sense whatsoever. It isn't about you, it's about the vulnerable people in the home. Hopefully there is no one as vulnerable as them when you go to the shops or on a bus.

It's not right, nothing is right about this. So to protect the vulnerable we jail them away from everyone they know and love, possibly to never see again.

This is awful and I really feel for you and your family

I do agree carehomes are between a rock and a hard place

I think they might have misinterpretted the rules though. DM works in a carehome. And says its 2 people max at a time where she works (they prefer it being the same 2 each time, but its not a rule as such). They have restricted visits to twice a week too.

However for patients at end of life, they are 'able'to have more visits (up to twice daily, instead of twice weekly), still limited to two people per visit, but not the same two people. So could have 2 people one visit and 2 others the next. Again, preferred but not a 'rule' if possible to be outside but obviously not possible with some end of life patients. Also less likely now weather is changing.

I highly doubt DMs workplace is going against government rules. It seems quite the same as other homes in the area too.

I hope you get this sorted and everyone can see her before she passes.

Have a word with a hospice. Loros helped my family a lot to keep my DA home

I would say to the home, I am writing to my MP to berate him for this ridiculous rule at xxxxx care home and how upsetting it is for your family bet they buck up their ideas at the thought of the MPs office contacting them.

In fact if you think you could get someone to pull it off, ring them saying you are from xxxxx local paper and would they like to comment on the government rulz.

It is horrible and heartless, OP. I feel for you - the doctor started talking about end of life care for my mother back in June, but thankfully the care home were willing to let all of us in to see her as they had no cases at the time. They do now (my mother included) and she'll die without any of us there. It's fucking horrible.

Having said that, I do know of one home in the area who are saying one visitor once a MONTH at the moment. One person to visit patients at end of life, once a week.

Said home had a few covid cases and one death in March.

The one my mother works in had no cases, nor have the others who seem to be 'lax' compared to the above. So its possible they are making the rules based on their experience. It doesn't sound like the 'rules' though, but individual homes risk assessing and cdeciding for themselves (which they are perfectly able to do of course, but if its that its a cop out to blame the government instead of saying this?)

How awful. You are definitely not being unreasonable. These rules are in humane.

@Clappingforjoy

Need to do something how to accept this its bloody draconian

OP, I can't speak for you or dictate to you. But if it were my Mum, I would walk over hot coals a thousand times over to make sure the people who need to see her do see her. I wouldn't give a shit about the "rules". I broke the rules every day during lockdown because some things are more important than the stupid rules. I would also take on anyone who tried to stop me from seeing my Mum in that situation, and I'm a complete pushover IRL.

Have NC'd but OP I am in exactly this position today too.
Just been told home locked down based on local IPC guidelines. We will only be allowed in once a Doctor confirms they are in the final hours of life. I live a 3 hour drive away.....

The only thing getting me through is that I know it is to protect all the vulnerable in that home.

That and 🍷

If you read my posts it does seem it’s the care homes that are doing the risk assessments and making up their own rules .

It is not what the government have said .

Read gov uk about exceptions for end of life .

Local councils are calling a lot of the shots with care homes at the moment, so though it may not be a hard and fast government rule, it isn't necessarily the care home that have imposed this, it could well be the local council that have.
It's an awful situation and one that has no easy answers. Most care homes are designed to encourage the residents to mix, to have visitors, to have social time, and it's incredibly difficult to change that without big (and unsettling for the residents) changes to the home.
So an entrance and route to a bedroom may well pass through public areas, and pass other residents going about their daily routine.
It's not always practical or appropriate to move someone who is on end of life, care staff disturb them physically as little as possible so they are as comfortable as possible, to move someone bedroom at this stage could be extremely uncomfortable and upsetting for them.
All that said, I don't agree with this rule, it shouldn't be restricted to just the same two people. I get that letting a family in I their entirety can't happen, however you should imo at least be able to visit in two's, wearing PPE and using sanitiser and not expect cups of tea/to use the toilet etc because that would increase the risk. I think each case should be assessed on it's own circumstances. So a rule of no more than 2 at a time and restrict to spouse/children or closest relatives or even friends. So if someone has 30 grandchildren, no they cannot all visit, however should they have a spouse and 2 children, or in the case of the OP 4 children, then all should be allowed to visit at end of life, in no more than 2's at a time.
It'd be incredibly hard to make a hard and fast rule that's going to be fair to everyone. If you allow 4 people then some residents will have 5 close relatives, if you allow nok/close familyonly and someone has no family then important friends aren't allowed.
It's a horrible situation, and hopefully you can get some answers from the manager and all of you be able to see your mum.

@GeologyRox

Good post . And I think the poster should refer the care home to the gov guidelines and ask for two visits of 2 people .

@Unsure33

Thank you, I've just started back in care after being in another industry and it was immediately apparent how difficult this kind of situation is to manage so that there's the least risk possible to the residents and staff but people's wishes and dignity are still respected too.
It's added another layer of complexity for the 'on the floor' care workers that in all likelihood would love to let family see their loved ones without restriction, but are bound by the rules they have to uphold. It's not a nice situation to be in.
It's heartbreaking to see these vulnerable people so isolated and families upset but at the same time know why it's so necessary.

The rules are in place for a reason. You/the other visitors giving your mum covid isn't the whole issue, she's end of life and it will make little odds to her situation whether she goes with covid or of dementia. What is the issue is that she requires nursing and care - hands on care. If she catches it and subsequently passes it to the staff who have dozens of other old and vulnerable residents to also care for (hand on) the risk is you could wipe out half the home!

It might be you wanting 4 visitors instead of 2, but what about Mabel in the next room she wants 5, which is almost like your 4 so why not let her have her 5 too. Then there's Beryl next week who has 7 children and they'd all like to see her off and that's not much more than Beryl's 5. Before you know it you'll have every man and his dog visiting and increasing the risk of bringing covid into the home and passing it to a resident who could pass it to a carer who passes it to a dozen other residents.

Yes it is unfair but there is good reasoning behind it.

My heart is breaking for you.

Agree with others who have said to challenge the home. I think the rules with end of life care are open to interpretation, and you may get some leeway. We have had a similar situation, but when my relative was on end of life care, the rules were adapted. We could have two visitors at a time (any two, but no more than two), and in the very final stages, 2 of those relatives were allowed to stay with relative during the night until he passed. The home would definitely not have been breaking the rules - having an affiliation with the NHS, and managed the situation the best they could within the given guidelines.

It is heartbreaking, but the rule is in place to minimise the risk of covid-19 being brought into the nursing home and infecting vulnerable residents, many of whom would die as a result.