To think this rule is awful

[Clappingforjoy]

Dm is in a carehome and doctor has confirmed she is in the last stages of dementia and is end of life.
Visits are now allowed but only the ever the same 2 people because of covid there are 4 of us meaning 2 will never see our DM before she passes.
I'm really upset.

So sorry you are going through this.

There are 4 of us siblings and our mum died very suddenly a few weeks ago. Thankfully we were all allowed to spend time with her body (several hours) before it was taken. She died at home so we didn't have to deal with the logistics of her being elsewhere.

I cannot imagine being in a position where we'd have to chose who got to see her.

Covid has taken so much from so many and I am not talking about the obvious.

Please know whatever happens, your mum has had a lifetime of love with you all, as you have with her. Who gets to hold her hand now isn't as important as all the shared love and history and all the memories of happier times.

@Clappingforjoy

I've just spoken with my sister about taking her out but we dont think it's in her best interests

Caring for someone at end of life isn't easy ..It probably wouldn't be in your Mum's best interest.The Care home would be geared up with everything needed to move and lift frail people without the risk of falling.

It is a horribly sad situation.
Could you face time your Mum?..Not the same, but better than not seeing her at all.

Nah, fuck that

I've never broken a Covid rule in my life but I'd still be wearing a huge face mask and carrying my sisters ID to see my almost dead Mum

Do what you have to

@Crunchymum

Beautifully put and so true. 💕

Just checked the national guidance and they specify one visitor except when the resident is at the end of their life however its up to the home dependent on local conditions.

They should be allowed to make exceptions for end of life situations. I would raise this with them. Even in the initial major lockdown when hospital visitors were banned, we got in due to this exemption.

Doliv if your home allows that then surely they cant be right about it been a government ruling.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

Do you four look at all similar? Or can be made to look similar? If so, do some acting. The staff haven't seen you for a long time and may not remember what you look like. Look as anonymous as possible.

Two of you visit on dsay one, you will probably need to sign in , and you will need to wear masks.

The next day, the other two visit. Wearing the same clothes and matching masks as pair 1, sign using their same names as before.
Pair 2 could even take pair 1's ID, just in case you;re challenged.
Remember, if one of the first pair wears glasses, borrow those. too.
If you need to hide hair, share hats or scarves.

The staff will probably not notice; and if they do they may turn a blind eye.  I'm sorry to say your mother may be beyond recognising anyone;  but you will all get chance to hold her hand and say your goodbyes.

Maybe it's to do with the area I'm not sure

I'm too fat for a disguise 2baz lol the others are slim.

I've just looked at the guidance on gov.uk, and it doesn't specify only 2 people. It specifies 2 consistent person where possible for normal visits, but it does state that this could be changed to suit end of life care.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-admission-and-care-of-people-in-care-homes - see section 4, "Care for people at the end of life and after death"

I think the care home is wrong.

I DO NOT think it is law.

I do believe that care homes are able to make exceptions for cases where it has been ruled as end of life.

But I'd have to do a bit of googling to try and confirm what the actual law is.

I believe that some local authorities rather than government are making rules - but thats not law - and its crucial to understand the difference.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes
Guidance
Update on policies for visiting arrangements in care homes

First of all the key thing here is there doesn't appear to be a law regarding visting arrangements in care homes.

This document is GUIDANCE (dated 21st September and the most recent one). It ADVISES no more than one visitor per person.

But crucially this is ADVICE. It is NOT law.

This means there is room on compassionate grounds to allow a single last visit if the care home is willing to accomodate it.

I believe the position is that several local councils have restricted visits to council owned establishments - but private homes may fall outside this.

Without knowing what council you are talking about, I can't look up what the local restrictions are - but again since they are NOT law - my suspicion is that there is an ability for end life visits if the care home is willing to facilitate it.

My gut is you are being told this is law to fob you off and stop you challenging them because they don't want to facilitiate an end of life visit.

The problem is I don't think you have a right to visit her either, so they can be difficult over this if they want to.

But I do think you are being given information which isn't strictly true and it might mean you may be able to challenge them if this is the case.

When my Mum was end of life, her consultant intervened so that more than one of us could visit her. Is there anyone similar you could ask?

That is barbaric as well as stupid.

Oh I am so sorry. That's awful.

When FIL was moved to a hospice in March they had rules like this, though was initially no-one then 1. But on his last two days they did allow MIL, DH and BIl to go in, but only two at a time.
Likewise in June the hospital had similar rules, but the day before she died the hospital ward manager allowed all six siblings to visit for 5 minutes each, one at a time, to say their goodbyes.

So it seems there are some places which will end the rules if they can. I would keep asking - and maybe show them the guidance which says that when its end of life things can be changed slightly.

I don't know if this can be challenged but this must be heartbreaking. Dementia end of life can last for quite a long time and I do hope that the home will decide to be more flexible.

Definitely not a government rule.

Several of my family regularly go and visit my uncle in his care home - granted 2 at a time, but each time is a different 'two'. We can only visit outdoors (heated gazebo) - I suppose it might be different indoors, but I doubt it.

The home are lying to you. It isn't the law. Get a solicitor onto it.

My Mum died of dementia in June, having also been put on end of life care. She was put onto it in early May and died at the end of June. I don't want to be insensitive, but end of life care can go on for quite a while- my Mum was on it for almost 8 weeks.
I am abroad and there was no air corridor at the time. I know my cousin and family did go, and there are 4 of them and also a couple of her closest friends.
I imagine, as others have said, it's up to the individual homes themselves. I do think you should try and speak to the carehome for your own peace of mind, but she needs to stay there.

I dont think the government has set any rules on care home visiting, it’s up to the care home what their policy is based on their risk assessment.

I work at a hospital. Our (large) NHS Trust has the rule that only end of life patients may receive a visitor. And even then that is just one person. If the patient remains end of life for several days, it is still only the one same visitor.

Imagine having to explain this rule to families. It’s heartbreaking.

Could she be moved to a hospice or elsewhere?

That is terrible. I’m one of four too. An impossible situation.

I know that this isn't the same illness BUT

www.mariecurie.org.uk/help/support/coronavirus/visiting-dying

Can I visit someone in a care home, hospital or hospice?

Care homes, hospitals and hospices may have restrictions on visitors. They will consider the risk of coronavirus to people staying there, visitors and staff, and things can change quickly. If you’re unsure whether you can visit:

ask the person’s close family members or friends
contact the care home, hospital or hospice to ask about their visiting policy.

If the care home, hospital or hospice does not allow you to visit:

<span class="italic">speak to the manager to see if there are exceptions for end of life visits</span>
<span class="italic">contact the organisation in charge, for example the council or NHS trust.</span>

If you’re unhappy with the response, ask about their complaints procedure or contact the Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS) for support.