High achieving families

[Coldemort]

this isn't about politics disclaimer
So... I ended up down a twitter/wikipedia rabbit hole around the Javid family (most famous being Sajid, but brother Baz is also very high ranking, another brother a CEO, another a millionaire property magnate).
That family are first generation, working class. What is the family dynamic that makes them so very successful?
The Johnsons of the world, I get. When you have wealth, privalege and the best education money can buy, it makes sense you are going to be in the elite.
But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children? (I could reference other families, but the Javids are the one that caught my eye tonight)

This thread is fascinating.
I am currently fairly successful in running my business and as others have said on here, had a shit childhood. My parents are no longer in my life.
What drives me is the fact no one else is there to rely on, emotionally or financially.
I've been through some awful things, so nothing is as bad as that, so risk taking is fairly easy for me.
I also work incredibly hard. If something fails I pick myself up quite well. Skills learnt when I've been let down over the years.
I'm certainly not particularly academically gifted (got a 2:2 in a pointless degree)

I think that's very depressing and not what OP is saying here at all @formerbabe.

I thought OP was questioning how some (hopefully many) successful people are able to carve a new and different path for themselves from the one they were brought up with.

*Today 02:39trixiebelden77

Goodness. I would never call a property magnate a ‘high achiever’.

Depends on what you think success is though*

Goodness. I couldn't read past this breathtaking snobbery.

Here's some information about the lawyer and extraordinarily successful businessman Atif Javid: www.atifjavid.com/about-atif-javid/

But yeah, it's property, so not proper work.

The vast majority of people who work really hard never become successful or rich. It's pretty insulting to suggest that hatd work is all it takes.

I agree about middle class syndrome though. I definitely had it and I fear my dc do too.

@Coldemort my family are like this. My parents put us children first and really impressed the importance of education on us. Neither of my parents went to university as no opportunity - however they were both clearly intelligent which they passed on to us so there is the nature part as well as nurture.

My father is a small scale farmer and my mother is a stay at home mum. They have no hobbies bar my father paid €2 a week to go to play lawn bowls and they never went out to pubs or bought new clothes for themselves, cut their own hair etc, no holidays but if we needed anything our parents found the cash (ie a laptop for university or money for a extra curricular trip).

We are 5 siblings in the family. All of us got top marks in our A-levels, all went to Oxford/Cambridge, 1 master & PHD post degree, x2 masters and chartered accountancy exams, x2 masters and 1 winner of gold medal for top exam results in the year. We all have good jobs now earning high salaries. We are all very close to our parents who we have now sent on lots of holidays and we love to spoil them as we know how much they sacrificed for us.

We also did need help from scholarships and hardship grants and we all also worked part time during school and full time in holidays. At one stage I was working 3 jobs on the weekend - grinds, waitressing and baby sitting at night.

So I suppose overall it’s

• strong parental support and sacrifice
• government / hardship assistance
• availability of part time jobs
• nurture re our parents likely to have also been successful but never got the opportunity.

Several studies suggests that one of the key indicators of academic success is how many books kids have at home. And that research holds and allows for all other covariates, region/class/income etc.
Basically if your parents love learning and knowledge in the form of books, you have a big advantage academically speaking.

@CatteStreet

I hope one day we'll replace the admiring phrase 'she's done well for herself' with 'she's done well for us

I love this, I hope for it too.

It is interesting, though often as others mentioned there are parts of stories and individuals in the family that can get left out of the inspirational tellings/marketing.

I also think situations where one in a family or community 'gets out' are interesting. There are many communities that have so many people when they're young say they're going to get out, but few do. Many have equally terrible backgrounds, but there is a mix of qualities, drives, luck, and wider environment that allow a few to move beyond what they've known, but most typically remain or end up in even worse positions.

This article on Serendiptity Mindset and making luck, or at least making the most of it when it comes, and how much accidents and luck have changed the world inspiring. I see chance and luck throughout my life. Sure, most things I've done most could have done, I don't think I've done any exceptional and my disabilities and family history has certainly put some limits on me, but so many circumstances, knowledge, and other things had to come together. I could have ended up so much more unwell and one change to immigration law happening sooner could have fucked over my entire life, but balancing the risks, responsibilities, with the potential benefits even against the odds I think plays a big role even though I see in my own family and communities where such rolls have not been so lucky.

^ btw I take that to mean books more in the sense of “home library” or communal fiction/non fiction books which the parents read. Not simpy buying your toddler a hundred kids books off Amazon.

Well he's a tory so no morals? I think you can get quite far when you don't give a shit who you fuck over.

Basically if your parents love learning and knowledge in the form of books, you have a big advantage academically speaking.

We have loads of books, our dc are keen readers and definitely academic. What they don't seem to have is much in the way of determination, drive or sticking power. They've always found school work pretty easy so they don't need to work very hard. As a result they tend to give up on things (hobbies, other tasks etc) if they aren't immediately good at them or if they require much effort. It worries me a bit tbh.

Bright kids, supportive family, hard work and a big dose of luck

I remember a book I read while back which was pretty good. It had as it’s central tenant:

Want happiness/contentment and loads of dish?
Don’t pursue what you love. That is Disneyesque bullshit and will usually not lead to happiness/financial rewards.
Pursue what you’re good at.

I’d agree with that.

Haven't read the full thread but in my experience (UK), immigrants learn to be incredibly resilient and versatile. Traits which are in demand for many professions in modern life. They are people who actively look for opportunities and seize them. That's why they tend to have emigrated.
I'm an immigrant from Ireland and often have more in common with other first and second generation immigrants in terms of life experience and how I see the world.

I don't think it's about class. It's rather about the immigrant status from my experience. Most of us try and work much harder than many locals because we need to prove ourselves more. And even more if not white.

Re the luck. Obviously some luck is there. Problem with talking about the luck is that most people put it in a way it sounds like it was mainly luck. Which is frankly insulting to many who worked hard, learned while working etc. Imagine you congratulate someone who just graduated with "Yeah, you had so much luck. Without it you wouldn't be here". You wouldn't. Because it would sound like it wasn't even their achievment. Just some luck. So stop doing it to successful people🤷🏻

^ dosh

I love this @Cam77 reading definitely helps :)

@SchrodingersImmigrant
True. Risk and luck go hand in hand. Luck only becomes a factor when you’re pursuing new routes and taking risks. You’re never guaranteed a holiday romance but the sure way not to have one is by staying at home.

Don’t pursue what you love. That is Disneyesque bullshit and will usually not lead to happiness/financial rewards.
Pursue what you’re good at.

People usually enjoy what they're good at though. But what they're good at won't necessarily lead to wealth and success either. I think it's mostly about drive (whether inbuilt or created by circumstance) and luck in your natural talents, yiur upbringing and in the opportunities that come your way).

Intelligence is important but it's useless if you don't have chutzpah. I know a woman who's an entrepreneur. Academically I'm more successful than her but career wise she streets ahead. Why? She has the chutzpah, she believes in herself, shes full of confidence, her personality is magnetic, she's an extrovert, she's driven. I procrastinate, I don't want to bother people, I get nervous, I overthink everything.

What @Gobbycop said:

"Hard work, resilience, bold decision making, risk and luck".

I think you need all of these for a true rags to riches story.
And it can go back again just as quickly, 1 generation later.

I also think that there are many who are quietly contribute to society, who are not traditionally viewed as 'successful'. Our recent shared experience of C-19 has illustrated that those who really keep the wheels turning are not necessarily those whose stars shine brightest.

His Wikipedia is definitely written by one of his staff! But this stood out to me:

When he later witnessed a video showing an assault on a Syrian refugee, he remarked that it was reminiscent of bullying he had experienced at school;

Does success make you forget? His attitude towards refugees now is inhumane.

@IrishMamaMia
You’re welcome. Yes I agree about immigrants. They typically have fewer inbuilt notions/conscious or subconscious restrictions of what they “should” be able to achieve.

Re the luck. Obviously some luck is there. Problem with talking about the luck is that most people put it in a way it sounds like it was mainly luck. Which is frankly insulting to many who worked hard, learned while working etc. Imagine you congratulate someone who just graduated with "Yeah, you had so much luck. Without it you wouldn't be here". You wouldn't. Because it would sound like it wasn't even their achievment. Just some luck. So stop doing it to successful people🤷🏻

There's a balance to be had though.... not acknowledging luck or chance is insulting to those who work hard yet still aren't successful'.

I'm relatively successful in my career but I'm secure enough to acknowledge that some of it was right place/right time. That doesn't mean I haven't worked hard or that I don't deserve the success- I grew up in one of the most deprived areas of the uk, my parents had me a 16 etc etc.....

It's what you do with the 'luck' that counts.

@SchrodingersImmigrant agreed but luck does play a big part. Lots of people work hard and still don't achieve their goals for a variety of reasons.
What about all those hard working actors and musicians who are extremely talented but never make it?
Or the talented sports people who suffer career ending injuries?
Or anyone who's health issues or life events hold them back?
It's importance to recognise the part luck plays in any journey to success and that doesn't undermine hard work.