High achieving families

[Coldemort]

this isn't about politics disclaimer
So... I ended up down a twitter/wikipedia rabbit hole around the Javid family (most famous being Sajid, but brother Baz is also very high ranking, another brother a CEO, another a millionaire property magnate).
That family are first generation, working class. What is the family dynamic that makes them so very successful?
The Johnsons of the world, I get. When you have wealth, privalege and the best education money can buy, it makes sense you are going to be in the elite.
But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children? (I could reference other families, but the Javids are the one that caught my eye tonight)

I study, research and teach career development. There are a number of well established theories that acknowledge luck as a factor in career success ( or otherwise). Not one says luck alone is the overriding factor but luck /chance alongside attitude and aptitude are key. I don't understand why people are so offended by the fact that luck and chance play a part in career development. It's present in all aspects of our lives why would that bit be exempt?

@SueEllenMishke - because some successful people have a god complex.

[quote Walkaround]@SueEllenMishke - because some successful people have a god complex.[/quote]
I think you might be right .....

And society seems to feel the need for gods to look up to.

immigrants have a lot of ground to make up. They don't (possibly) speak the language well and many won't have a network to depend on, so they rely on themselves and insist that their children use the education system to the full, because it's free (which it isn't in most of the world). First generation immigrants work all the hours to get some momentum for their family.

The first exceptional piece of writing I saw as a trainee teacher came from a young lad whose parents had come to work in food processing, who started to learn English aged 10. Two years later, he wrote English better than most native born 15 year olds. He had opinions about the world he found himself in. I pointed out his work to the main class teacher, who was usually quite dismissive of his efforts, as he was quiet. Very quietly, that essay got a head's commendation and he was moved to the G&T stream. The rest of the class (all native born) were entitled blockheads, which is normal in Y8; their main delight was to disrupt as many lessons as possible.

I didn't pursue my teaching career very hard, because there's not much enjoyment in banging your head against the ingrained stupidity of the agricultural working class. They come around and become useful once high minded schools stop telling them they can succeed without work and effort. But it takes a tough-love employer to cuss them out as a useless waste of space and not give them any slack before most take it seriously. There's a reason they go to work for their uncles.

Old proverb: the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

Luck plays a huge part. Even just being lucky in having parents who encourage and support you.
This^. In spades.
Regarding first-generation immigrants and their children, it’s mostly down to them knowing how bad things can be and how previldged they are. I am quite sure Sajid Javed and his siblings saw Pakistan and the local conditions and were able to see how lucky they were and how right their parents are. It also creates a sort of deep respect for what you parents have gone through and how we can multiply success if we follow the same route.

@SimonJT
For your sister, it’s a shame that I see this pattern among so many first generation immigrant families: boys are pushed to become high-achievers, girls aren’t and are even expected to have low or no aspirations.

It helps to be a bit ruthless

Also a huge and unshakable self-belief.

Families like that literally worked 18 hrs a day, 7 days a week.
Good on them.

immigrants have a lot of ground to make up. They don't (possibly) speak the language well and many won't have a network to depend on, so they rely on themselves and insist that their children use the education system to the full, because it's free (which it isn't in most of the world). First generation immigrants work all the hours to get some momentum for their family.

I am curious because google shows me the opposite but which part, the "most of the world" doesn't have free education?

The left leaning section of society tends to spend time blaming everyone else for them left behind.

Massively over simplified there.

@MintyMabel

The left leaning section of society tends to spend time blaming everyone else for them left behind.

Massively over simplified there.

But true.

@XingMing

Spot on. The bar is being lowered by a certain section of low achieving entitled population, who get the same opportunities are everyone else. Ironically they whinge about private and grammar schools as though they have all the drive in the world to make it, and state education just isn’t doing it for them. It’s laughable and tragic at the same time.

[quote sst1234]@XingMing

Spot on. The bar is being lowered by a certain section of low achieving entitled population, who get the same opportunities are everyone else. Ironically they whinge about private and grammar schools as though they have all the drive in the world to make it, and state education just isn’t doing it for them. It’s laughable and tragic at the same time.[/quote]
I am a first generation immigrant who has probably broke all sorts of ceilings on the way up. So definitely don’t belong to your classification of entitled. And even I can see how derogatory and generalised your comment is.

Meant to write ‘I am an immigrant’. Not ‘first generation’.

My friend and her brother had a crap upbringing. Their mum left when they were 11 and 13. Their dad drank himself into oblivion throwing parties from Thursday to Sunday encouraging the brother to get drunk. Random people sleeping everywhere. The dad was just a horrible, bitter man. He never bought them anything at all not even school clothes. They’ve bith dubs really well in life. My friend worked hard at school, put herself through Uni and now has a very well paid, high profile job. Her brother rarely went to school but worked really hard buying his first house at 19 and now has a few properties all mortgage free And he’s only 40 something.. I think the way there dad was and still is pushed them.

Luck, intelligence/business sense, work ethic, support (family or friends) and motivation (e.g. fear of poverty)

Mostly luck. Lots of people work hard but only so few are going to make it.

Luck plays a huge part. Even just being lucky in having parents who encourage and support you

Or I would say having no family to drip discouragement is also a form of Luck.

Having been in the care system I can see how it could produce people who are single minded in their pursuit of success

Orchids and dandelions. As a society we need both, but we need to look after our orchids much better than we do at the moment.

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/the-science-of-success/307761/

Much more recent research confirming this also, for those interested.

So luck, mainly. Genetic luck. Luck to be born in certain countries. Luck to be born at a time where it's even possible to pursue success rather than survival as your main goal, however we define "success". Luck to have the right opportunities present themselves.

And then, after all of that luck with genetics and environment, comes the hard work to make it happen.

@Coldemort

this isn't about politics disclaimer So... I ended up down a twitter/wikipedia rabbit hole around the Javid family (most famous being Sajid, but brother Baz is also very high ranking, another brother a CEO, another a millionaire property magnate). That family are first generation, working class. What is the family dynamic that makes them so very successful? The Johnsons of the world, I get. When you have wealth, privalege and the best education money can buy, it makes sense you are going to be in the elite. But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children? (I could reference other families, but the Javids are the one that caught my eye tonight)

The ‘Pakistanis’ who came to this country in the 60s and 70s came from the richest most powerful part of the old British India. I imagine that while he may not have had access to much money himself growing up, Javid’s extended family definitely did. I have a similar background with multimillionaire aunts and uncles from both sides - a lot of what people consider my family’s remarkable luck, is actually hard work from the whole extended families. I also imagine their business made enough money without needing much, if any, help from any of the sons. Thus allowing them to focus on their strengths.

If you want a real rags to riches story you should read up on the Issa brothers.

Lots of people work hard but only so few are going to make it.

That's because it's more about working "smart" than just plain hard which lots of people miss.

Would the person take a position in different company with a pay cut because it has better chance of progression? It's not just about doing 80 hours a week (i did that too btw). It's about stuff connected to it and around it.
Simply. You can work 80 hours a week, but if you never take any responsibility, ask for training etc. Well... You won't progress, will you.
I've met people who were moaning that they do xx hours and get passed on for promotion. Well yeah. Cause you never do anything outside of your duties. Meanwhile I showed interest in how rotas were made, how stuff is ordered in and so on. If she did, she would get the promotion 🤷🏻

And again. It depends on what you mean by "make it". As I said earlier. In my opinion my electrician made it. My builder too actually. But they have no flashy titles.

If you want a real rags to riches story you should read up on the Issa brothers.

Yes. Amazing!

The ‘Pakistanis’ who came to this country in the 60s and 70s came from the richest most powerful part of the old British India.
I don’t think this is true. Not only a lot of these immigrants came here to do manual labour, there was no British India (what is that anyway? It is borderline offensive) in 60s or 70s.
Regarding Issa brothers, Indian Gujrati families are considered to be hugely tribal and business-printed. If you have a whole network of people behind you, were born in 1971 (hence fully took advantage of the property market boom since then) and were British-born, nothing should stop you from becoming a billionaire really.
This tribal nature of some communities famous for their business acumen is exactly how capitalism works: money brings in more money and then exponentially more.

Not business-printed FFS. ‘Business-minded’.

Regarding my comment on ‘British India’, I don’t think it is just borderline offensive. It is actually offensive. We never say ‘British USA’ or ‘British Australia’. How come it is ‘British India’ then?