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Original poster

High achieving families

343 replies

Coldemort · 06/10/2020 01:35

this isn't about politics disclaimer
So... I ended up down a twitter/wikipedia rabbit hole around the Javid family (most famous being Sajid, but brother Baz is also very high ranking, another brother a CEO, another a millionaire property magnate).
That family are first generation, working class. What is the family dynamic that makes them so very successful?
The Johnsons of the world, I get. When you have wealth, privalege and the best education money can buy, it makes sense you are going to be in the elite.
But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children? (I could reference other families, but the Javids are the one that caught my eye tonight)

OP posts:
HelloMissus · 06/10/2020 12:22

stilllighting MN is very strange. There’s a very anti-success vibe.
No one is ever happy and high achieving Grin. I’d say it’s a defence mechanism to accepting mediocrity.

Dustballs · 06/10/2020 12:24

It's not bitterness @Stilllightingcandles. Actually I lost a parent at a very young age and was left traumatised. I was very driven for a long time - but also very lonely and unhappy.

Since having my children I've realised that money and success are outward distractions. Real happiness and contentment come from the simple things - that money does not buy.

Of course I don't want my kids to struggle for money. But you don't have to be high achieving to achieve that.

Stilllightingcandles · 06/10/2020 12:27

@Dustballs I completely agree that real happiness and contentment come from the little things. My favourite things to do are enjoy a bottle of wine with my DH on a Saturday, walk our dog and spend time with my parents and siblings -however I am also a high achiever with a good job and salary as are my siblings. The two are not mutually exclusive.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 06/10/2020 12:29

I know of a family where the majority of the siblings have done very well for themselves (including one who became a professor at a very young age) but the other two are lovely but have not achieved highly at all - yet they are by far the nicest of the 'boys'. That's achievement enough for me.

Also, achievement does often come at a cost, and as some other posters have indicated, doesn't necessarily make one happy.

Dustballs · 06/10/2020 12:34

@Stilllightingcandles - You're probably right.

I think being a parent now - and the happiness and fulfillment that comes from being with my children - I could no longer be high achieving and happy. I would miss too much of the 'small stuff'. But then I wasn't happy when I was high achieving before having children either.

The little things have to come first. They are the most important.

Stilllightingcandles · 06/10/2020 12:35

Agreed @HelloMissus - majority of posts are about how they can’t be high achieving and happy/ those who haven’t achieved are far nicer people etc.

As I said in my first post what I would attribute to the success of my siblings and I and what allowed us to be socially mobile was:

  • excellent parents who put us first in everything they did and encouraged and supported us (nurture)
  • being intelligent in 1st instance (nature) with parents who were also intelligent but didn’t get the opportunity to go to university etc
  • state supports such as hardship funds and scholarships that allowed us to go to university (social supports)
  • part time jobs that allowed us to support ourselves while getting an education (good economy)

Nothing to do with being miserable and unhappy driving success / suffering trauma/ being horrible people/ competitive horrible home environment / pushy parents / missing out on things

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 06/10/2020 12:35

Lots of truth here. I have turned my back on a high achieving career. I am not lazy but value my time and health too much. Ok not motivated enough by money. The things I enjoy doing most are free.

I admire hugely these entrepreneurial types however. They have a drive that is incredible.

Totickleamockingbird · 06/10/2020 12:45

Place mark for reading this later.

MikeUniformMike · 06/10/2020 12:54

Not only was MT from a middle-class background but she had a rich husband.

ohnothisagain · 06/10/2020 12:56

My grandparents were pretty much illiterate (very basic reading/writing maths abilities), my parents grew up in poverty. They did well for themselves (middle class ) by sheer determination, work ethic and a bit of very calculated risk.
I’m able to send my kids to private school (i’m a female main earner), because I always knew that working hard and finding a niche (and grapping it) would be the only way to not get anywhere close to poverty again. Looking at those around me - its work ethic and courage that can get you places (not guaranteed of course). Staying in mainstream jobs isn’t going to do it in most cases, neither is treating university as a party.

Original poster
Coldemort · 06/10/2020 13:09

Just catching up on the replies!
Re. Luck and individual stories, what I was more questioning was the dynamic that has made the entire sibling group successful.
The discussion on sibling rivalry is interesting, whether you push each other to succeed? What started me thinking about this was a bit of banter between Sajid and Bas on twitter.
The other family I was going to mention was the Robinsons (Michelle Obama and her brother). Without derailing too much, if you liked Becoming her podcasts are great :)

OP posts:
Original poster
Coldemort · 06/10/2020 13:11

And to address an early reply. I in no way was asking how the brown people did it, or any other such nonesense.

OP posts:
Iambouddicca · 06/10/2020 13:13

I think for a lot of people, especially in the boomer generation and just after you can’t discount the role of universal, free higher education.

My dads parents left school at 12 to go into manual labouring roles. They had no choices, but put everything into their son, who after grammar school and university was able to pay for them to have an inside bathroom and a fridge.

Free education ( and student grants not loans) enabled my parents to move from WC to MC and achieve well. unfortunately I don’t think social mobility is going to be so simple for this generation.

Hardbackwriter · 06/10/2020 13:19

@Iambouddicca

I think for a lot of people, especially in the boomer generation and just after you can’t discount the role of universal, free higher education.

My dads parents left school at 12 to go into manual labouring roles. They had no choices, but put everything into their son, who after grammar school and university was able to pay for them to have an inside bathroom and a fridge.

Free education ( and student grants not loans) enabled my parents to move from WC to MC and achieve well. unfortunately I don’t think social mobility is going to be so simple for this generation.

I think this is true, but also that lack of formal educational qualifications wasn't the barrier it was now. My dad ended his career as very senior, running a large area of a very large bank but he started it as an accounts clerk in his local bank with two (crap) A-levels. He would freely admit that it just couldn't happen now in the exact same organisation because he would have hit a wall where the only way to move up was a graduate position which he wouldn't have been eligible for. People certainly still succeed without degrees etc now but it is much harder to do so within a large organisation.
Dustballs · 06/10/2020 13:21

@ohnothisagain - what do you mean by 'mainstream' jobs?

gabsdot45 · 06/10/2020 13:28

My SIL comes from a family of high achievers. All 6 kids are either doctors, engineers, accountants. They all play musical instruments, run marathons, climb mountains etc.
Their dad was a tryrant. Failure was not an option in their home. They were put under enormous pressure to achieve and not let their family name down. They were the perfect family on the surface but extremly disfunctional underneath.
SIL has major issues and hangups from her childhood.

ohnothisagain · 06/10/2020 13:32

@Dustballs you are unlikely to create a career if you do what everyone else is doing. You need to be different in a strategic area. In most jobs, there are plenty of people that are basically exchangeable. If you want to earn double or triple of what others with the same degree get (and with a good work life balance!) you need to be different. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people with my background. there are about 20 people worldwide who do what I do. And its not a role that is likely to disappear in the future.

MorganKitten · 06/10/2020 13:37

But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children?

Why wouldn’t working class people be able to achieve? We are hard working and know what it’s like to struggle so aim high.

nestisflown · 06/10/2020 13:47

@gabsdot45

My SIL comes from a family of high achievers. All 6 kids are either doctors, engineers, accountants. They all play musical instruments, run marathons, climb mountains etc. Their dad was a tryrant. Failure was not an option in their home. They were put under enormous pressure to achieve and not let their family name down. They were the perfect family on the surface but extremly disfunctional underneath. SIL has major issues and hangups from her childhood.
Am I your SIL?! This exactly my family and now as we’ve married out and realised how abnormal and controlling our father really is compared to other families, the dysfunction is really imploding. I think a lot of first generation immigrant families have patriarchal fathers like that.

This element and also the fear of being poor in adulthood. I never want to be poor again. Don’t mind going without luxuries- but relying on kind neighbours for food/ going without heating? Never.

Dustballs · 06/10/2020 13:50

@ohnothisagain- how do you find out how to be different in a strategic area?

Where do you start off with that?

Sorry to be so inquisitive.

nestisflown · 06/10/2020 13:50

All 6 kids are either doctors, engineers, accountants

Oh actually we’re slightly different. Doctors, engineers and lawyers. As my dad used to say - there’s 4 paths in life: doctor, lawyer, engineer or failure Confused

ContessaDiPulpo · 06/10/2020 13:50

Sundries I too was in the UAE, which is why I specified Arab expat kids. I went to a school with a very high proportion of Emirati girls and I find your assessment to be at least partly accurate! There were a few sad cases though where my classmates said "There's no point in me trying as I'm just going to have to stay home and get married". So that came into it a bit, at least for the females :(

ContessaDiPulpo · 06/10/2020 13:51

I mean.... kids with parents from Lebanon, Syria etc all got 'YOU MUST WORK' dinned into them - Emirati kids not so much.....

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 06/10/2020 13:53

Lambouddicca you have a point. I have several friends whose parents were from humble backgrounds but went to grammar school and then became lawyers, doctors etc and the subsequent generations have flourished.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 06/10/2020 13:58

As far as the significance of being working class goes, there is actually a documented cyclic trend to family fortunes - royalty and landed gentry notwithstanding - as captured in sayings from disparate cultures:

Lancashire: clogs to clogs in three generations

Scottish: the father buys, the son builds, the grandchild sells, and his son begs

Japanese: rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations