To think many parents don't know what schools are like these days?

[AyeAyeShipAhoy]

It's something I've noticed quite a bit on many threads about teachers and schools. Some parents refer back to their own school days and use that to inform them as to what happens, but things have very much changed since I was at school.

As a teacher (primary) it's one of the hardest jobs I've done (this is my 2nd career, I was in management before so used to hard work and pressure). For one, the workload is huge and regularly spills into my evenings and weekends, affecting my own family time. Then there's the behaviour. But it's also one of the most rewarding jobs too and why I enjoy it.

The positives - a child that has struggled with a concept, getting it right and feeling proud of themselves, and knowing you made a difference. Supporting those kids who can struggle with their learning.

The negatives - being verbally abused - called a f*ing a*hole, cnt and a paedophile. Told to fuck off and been slapped and kicked and dodged flying objects thrown over the years.

I'll be honest, in my first career I never considered this was what was happening in schools. I remember being at school and kids doing low level stuff (humming, whole toilet rolls down the loo - this at secondary though - primary was fine!). It's been a real eye opener seeing what behaviour is like now.

So, teachers, what's your best and worst experiences.

And parents, how aware are you of what actually happens in schools and the workload? Are you aware? Or is this an eye-opener for you too?

PS I feel teaching is a hard job, but not THE hardest job, so this thread is not meant as a competition.

I left primary teaching 3 years ago. Worst points was absolutely the workload and pressure, it was constant, nothing ever got finished, I could work 24 hours a day and still have a huge list. The behaviour was also bad at time. I had a boy shove a table at our pregnant deputy, one threw scissors at me and have been called a whore. I’ve had children so neglected at home I’ve stayed awake night after night worrying about them. The best points - just being around children all day, watching them succeed and finally crack things they couldn’t do. Every day was different and exciting. I loved building relationships with my class and getting to know them. The 9-3 but with the kids was the best but I just couldn’t cope with the rest anymore.

In primary school I found the absolute lack of any attempt to accommodate working parents pretty appalling.

I think primary schools try very hard to accommodate working parents for things like parent evenings. Every school I have been in have offered parents the option of coming in early one morning if they can't make them.

You also have to remember, that primary school parents are also frequently working parents of young children. Meaning they also have to extract their own children from after school childcare by a certain time, often 6:00pm.

I appreciate it's not all schools, I'm sure there are some who arrange things after 6pm however my experience was to the contrary and it was odd how different it was to my own childhood - our school concerts were always at 7pm, ditto parents evenings (I remember this even 40 years on because my dad used to get in from work at 6.30 and he just about had time to change out of work clothes and get there in time to see me - which was a huge deal for me at the time).

With my DCs school not only were all events either during school time or shortly after, it was also made pretty clear you were a shit parent if you didn't attend. Thankfully it's a few years ago now.

I got called a fucking dickhead by a four year old last week...
I’ve been teaching for ten years and this isn’t new behaviour. I’ve also taught in several locations around the country so it’s not like I’ve just been in one rough area. The school I’m in now is actually quite a ‘nice’ area. There are difficult children in every school, most schools just don’t advertise it.

I grew up in an extremely rough burnt-out-cars-on-the-green-spaces Irish council estate, so my DC's socio-economically mixed English state primary school experience seem really quite gentle! There were some very disturbed & neglected kids in all the schools I attended, a few of whom are now in and out of prison etc. I like to joke that the In The Courts section of my hometown's local rag is up there with Facebook for keeping track of people . And that was zero awareness of autism / Aspergers, or different sexual orientations or whatever in my childhood.

In primary school I found the absolute lack of any attempt to accommodate working parents pretty appalling

But we (primary school staff) are working parents too.

I missed events and open mornings at my DC's school..but do you know what, I accepted that, because as a working parents I knew I 'couldn't have it all' and to have a career and to support my family financially I had to work.
Rather different to some of the working parents of children in my school. Demanding we cancel open afternoons because they couldn't make it, refusing to accept that the open afternoon couldn't happen at 6.30pm because (shock, horror) - the pupils are at home and not learning in the classroom for parents to share.
Working parent, I can't always help you to 'have it all'. I can't always provide opportunities outside of school just to ease your guilty conscience and no I'm not going to stop holding events during the day preventing those parents who can do so from attending. (Just so that you don't miss out).

I'm not talking about open mornings or read with your kid in class or walk round the classroom and see displays or any of that stuff that in pre Covid days was a regular at schools. I've never expected to have everything. As a single parent working in an incredibly child unfriendly career I learned that 20 years ago. However what I objected to was that in my children's entire time at primary there was never a single thing after 6pm...in 11 years. I had to take annual leave for every play, beg cap in hand to leave early for parents eves or again take annual leave for that too. Failing which I was made to feel a shit parent by the school for the events I missed. I was looked down on as an uninvolved and disinterested parent because I had to work and had no partner or family to support me. I'm sure my experience was unfortunate, and I hope not representative of most schools and teachers.

Are you sure you were looked down on?
As a teacher I never go to my dc’s school events (except the pta stuff in the evenings, which I organise).
I don’t think my dcs teachers look down on me at all.

I would love to show some parents the behaviour of their children in the corridors and classes. Whilst the vast majority are great, we have a significant number who are incredibly disrespectful and disturb their own and everyone else's learning. Some of these children have parents who refuse to accept that their child's behaviour is at fault. I would love to be able to film and show these parents how their children respond to simple requests and instructions in the classroom. I am quite sure many of them are putting their heads in the sand and prefer to believe that their child is being unfairly described.

I also find that many people have no idea how much preparation goes into lessons. I spend many hours planning and organising resources for lessons. If kids frequently miss lessons, they miss out on huge chunks of learning that cannot be quickly caught up.

The negatives - being verbally abused - called a fing ahole, cnt and a paedophile. Told to fuck off and been slapped and kicked and dodged flying objects thrown over the years.

In most schools this is not the sort of stuff that happens regularly though, and it is not something that most children would witness during their time in primary, so they would not report back to their parents on it.

@ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords In most schools this is not the sort of stuff that happens regularly though, and it is not something that most children would witness during their time in primary, so they would not report back to their parents on it.

Reading this thread makes me think it does happen regularly. I'm interested on what basis you say it doesn't.

I had to take annual leave for every play, beg cap in hand to leave early for parents eves or again take annual leave for that too.

As a teacher, I have never been able to make any of my own’s primary school events-the nativity play/sports day etc. and even the first day at school drop off as we don’t have annual leave in the traditional sense. My DH is a teacher too-same for him. Completely accept this, as it is me that has chosen to be a teacher. Have never ever been looked down on as a result either. What exactly was said to you?

[quote AyeAyeShipAhoy]**@ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords* In most schools this is not the sort of stuff that happens regularly though, and it is not something that most children would witness during their time in primary, so they would not report back to their parents on it.*

Reading this thread makes me think it does happen regularly. I'm interested on what basis you say it doesn't.[/quote]
Well I have not been on the receiving end of abuse like that, nor have I heard it of any of my colleagues, in the ten years I have been at my present school.

I don't mean no children have ever become violent or sworn, obviously there has been the occasional child, usually children with known additional needs, but I've never been called a cunt, paedophile, arsehole or the like by a child.

I did 6 years in specialist SEN and 52 week placements. I was bitten, hit, kicked, verbally abused, hair pulled, pinched, spat at in the face, told I was going to be raped, my children were going to be raped and killed, had things thrown at me, attacked when driving a minibus.... and worse. It was absolutely horrendous but the worst thing was the terrible stories my students had and the trauma they had suffered. Heartbreaking.

Sounds horrendous

ChloeDecker comments such as how unfortunate it was I had SUCH a busy job I couldn't be available to attend a school event in the middle of the day at zero notice, how disappointing it was for my DC they were the only ones who didn't have a parent who could make the time to attend a class display or suchlike, how difficult it was for them when I was 'unwilling' to come to the school, how outcomes were better for children whose parents came in regularly and were involved with school life,

that surely it was possible for me to make it to parents evening at 4pm, how I needed to be contactable throughout the day and them leaving a message for me wasn't acceptable, and the best one (from the headteacher no less) how perhaps I should rethink my career as I was on my own and get a part time job closer to home! (DCs dad wasn't around much and I had explained multiple times when asked why my parents couldn't come to school that they died before DC were born, and I'm an only child). That's the ones I can remember, I'm sure there were more.

@Mumofsend

I'm a parent of a child with SEND who desperately needs a specialist school as she can't cope with the environment but there is no suitable specialist provision available for her and I genuinely wouldn't cope with her at home for EOTAS. She's only in year 1 and really struggles.

Fortuantly her insults are very typical 5 year old "butthead", "poo poo head" and occasionally "idiot". However she is a runner and I'm fairly sure her 1-1 spends the majority of 9-3 trying to keep DD where she is meant to be. She has on occasion been incredibly violent in school but her mainstream are actually very good for SEN. The violence has been awful, she has hit, kicked, thrown things at staff. She also badly bit a teacher last year. HOWEVER, the school and I have put everything into identifying triggers and putting together a 14 page document on exactly how to manage her, to de-escalate before it gets to that point. I think her 1-1 Has been slapped twice this year and a child has been hurt once since she started reception. The school working so closely with me has meant she isn't getting to that point as easily anymore. Her 1-1 is incredible, she knows DD and her cues as well as I do.

I know my DD can be disruptive but her 1-1 can take her out of the classroom as soon as she starts getting silly. She gets sensory breaks all the time. She gets OT input. She has Elsa and literacy and all sorts of provisions. Im 90% sure her entire day at school is spent not losing her and managing her emotions and the other 10% is some sort of learning.

The first time she kicked off in school I went home and cried, the idea of her hurting anyone makes me want to throw up but we all know she shouldn't be there.

I think the real crime is how kids who need specialist schools can't access them because there just isn't the provision available. Mainstreams are told they have to take them and given whatever funds they need but they can't get rid of most the kids or make the routine rigid etc.

Kids are being failed and it's them and teachers and other kids who have to pay the price :(

That sounds really tough. Well done you for working hard to identify her triggers. I hope.she gets support for her education that she needs.

Easy for me to say maybe but hang on in there

@grenlei. I recognise that one. New headteacher arrives and decides the annual school fete (main source of pta funds) must be held on a Friday. 3.30 - 5.30, not on a Saturday, and then wonders why no-one attends.
She decided the appointment system for parents evening would be a piece of paper on the playground door available between 8.50 and 3.30. The playground is locked out of hours so no working parent could book a time.And the office was " far too busy to manage bookings". Her disdain for working mothers was absolute and for single mothers, even worse.
Within two years she had made a happy village school, at the centre of the community, a stressful snobbish place, where her little clique of "mummies who lunch" debated the school mission statement and the web site, and children were so stressed over SATS, they provided mindfulness classes for 10yos..

It was a relief when DS grew too old.

how I needed to be contactable throughout the day and them leaving a message for me wasn't acceptable

This is fair enough for them to say, if you weren’t available but the rest is horrific and I would have complained (to the Governors eventually if need be) because that is appalling, especially if more than one person was saying this. I am so sorry you faced these comments as a working mother. You infer this was a while ago. I very much hope this viewpoint has changed amongst teachers (support staff as well).

Well I have not been on the receiving end of abuse like that, nor have I heard it of any of my colleagues, in the ten years I have been at my present school.

Okay, so in one school it doesn’t happen. Ever. That’s great and I sincerely hope there are more schools like that.
The OP and others are right though that one school doesn’t necessarily translate into ‘most schools’. The problem is there sadly.

My dad was a teacher. I am 44. He marked books every evening and weekend. He always said it isn't the type of job where you just work set hours each day and you shouldn't do it if you think that.

My friend's husband is a teacher now (secondary like my dad) and complains when he has to do a parents evening as it's in "his own time". So to me it doesn't seem to have got worse since "my day" at school. He seems to work much less than my dad did, and expect more.

Im well aware of what its like in schools as my child's one of the ones you are referring to he has severe autism and complex needs and should never have been in mainstream primary took 3 years of fighting with the LA to get him into a specialist autism unit.

I find behaviour at my daughters' schools far better than at the secondary school I went to in the late 1980s/1990s. A big factor is that they go to single sex schools.

I got the impression with the local co-ed schools that they were all set up to deal with badly behaved boys, so made a great show of discipline and strict rules. And the uniform was clearly designed around boys, with girls being an afterthought. Tie-wearing for one thing. It just created the overall impression that teachers' efforts would be expended in dealing with discipline and my DDs would be left in the corner, expected to get on quietly.

Generally I think secondary schools are too big and too anonymous.

It is very sad that teaching time is more and more compromised because teachers now have to spend so much time disciplining.

It's not even an issue of parents bring lazy and happy to leave it to the teachers, it's worse:parents who genuinely don't see that their kids need disciplining so teachers have to cope with dealing with dreadful behaviour from the kids and then bullish parents with the pressure of needing to remain 100% professional and watch every word they say as said parents will look for any minor mishap to put a complaint that sadly will have to be investigated.

All this of course having an impact on the rest of the class who doesn't get the level of teaching they deserve.