To think many parents don't know what schools are like these days?

[AyeAyeShipAhoy]

It's something I've noticed quite a bit on many threads about teachers and schools. Some parents refer back to their own school days and use that to inform them as to what happens, but things have very much changed since I was at school.

As a teacher (primary) it's one of the hardest jobs I've done (this is my 2nd career, I was in management before so used to hard work and pressure). For one, the workload is huge and regularly spills into my evenings and weekends, affecting my own family time. Then there's the behaviour. But it's also one of the most rewarding jobs too and why I enjoy it.

The positives - a child that has struggled with a concept, getting it right and feeling proud of themselves, and knowing you made a difference. Supporting those kids who can struggle with their learning.

The negatives - being verbally abused - called a f*ing a*hole, cnt and a paedophile. Told to fuck off and been slapped and kicked and dodged flying objects thrown over the years.

I'll be honest, in my first career I never considered this was what was happening in schools. I remember being at school and kids doing low level stuff (humming, whole toilet rolls down the loo - this at secondary though - primary was fine!). It's been a real eye opener seeing what behaviour is like now.

So, teachers, what's your best and worst experiences.

And parents, how aware are you of what actually happens in schools and the workload? Are you aware? Or is this an eye-opener for you too?

PS I feel teaching is a hard job, but not THE hardest job, so this thread is not meant as a competition.

This is really really bad timing I think. Personally, I have not heard from my daughter's teacher in a month despite us being in remote learning mode.

My daughter's teacher has issued us with printed work for the last term then basically gone AWOL.

The work she has been issued is prep level with some grade 1 and a tiny bit of grade2 work thrown in (she is grade 2 in a combined P/1/2 class).

If I hadn't been putting the work in to making sure my daughter was doing appropriate work and working through it with her to teach her she would have learned nothing this term.

While I know from my friends experiences that ours is not the norm, not all teachers are working hard and some are barely working at all.

@StoppinBy

Are you in the UK? This thread isn’t about remote learning in other countries.

Best part of the job is teaching the children and making a difference.

Worst, where to begin? The workload and stress. Verbal and physical assault that needed medical treatment. Bullying from parents. Parents using WhatsApp group chats to whip everyone up into a frenzy about minor issues then bullying and harassing the teacher for it.

@Bupkis

The worst part - parents interfering

Really sad to see this. I have tried so hard to work with the school my ds (who has conplex needs) attends, and have been utterly broken by the experience.

Working in partnership...school, parents, outside professionals, with the child at the centre - I thought this was part the process in getting the best for children.

That’s not what I meant by ‘interfering’, honestly, and I’m sorry it came across that way.

What I mean is the undermining, the refusal to believe that their child’s behaviour is unpacking the learning of many others, the phone calls demanding to know exactly how an interaction went when a child was called out for misbehaving/completing no work, the complaints when someone had lost their blazer/jumper/cardigan but none had names in. Complaining about lack of reading progress when you never listen or read to your child.

Some parents seem to be determined to work against schools/teachers and this makes it really hard.

*impacting not unpacking

My mum worked in a secondary school and I went to a (different) secondary school that both had some really poor behaviour despite being completely different areas, one was much more deprived than the other. So I'm not really shocked by tales of bad behaviour, but I do wonder if it is aimed at teachers more often than other children now, as most schools seem to tackle bullying much better, but not necessarily react the same way when it's aimed at staff.

I was surprised when my DC started secondary (in a fairly average/nice area) how many parents I knew seemed determined to start as one of those parents and not consider that they were going to have a bad relationship with the school from the very beginning and that their kids would pick up on their negative attitude towards the school rules.

Best part: getting to know the kids over the years. By A level I have a great relationship with my class and our lessons are full of laughter - it helps they have chosen to do my subject. I love my job.

Worst part: parents who insist their child couldn't do anything wrong. If mum doesn't give permission for an after school detention, nothing we can do. We can suspend, but if parents don't care its just a few nice days off at home so has no effect.
Also lack of support from SLT with behaviour. I am pretty good with behaviour and I teach in a nice rural school. But I still have to break up physical fights a couple of times a year (which as a very small woman is difficult with the 6 foot boys). I escalate it to SLT, nothing happens, no sanctions (we aren't allowed to call them punishments). Behaviour continues. Even when i raised concerns about the safety of other pupils in the class with one pupil, nothing happened.

As a parent of a 12yo and sister to a primary school teacher, I have a fair idea of what goes on in some schools. My sis was attacked by an aggressive father.

When I visited prospective senior schools for DS, I was shocked at the obvious lack of budget, gaps in facilities and overworked staff. I was also horrified at the behaviour of some of the children. I'm the sort of parent who supervises homework, supports teachings decisions, bakes for cake sales if I get time, and will turn out and help at weekends if needed. My DS is a quiet mid-ability child who likes maths and science.

I took a deep breath and sent my son to a non-selective independent school. I'm a single mum and it's a huge amount of money to me, but it's an indication of what I judged the conditions in the local state comps to be. I'm driving a last-legs car, will downsize the house and raid my pension if necessary to keep him in a school where class sizes are 16 and everyone passes GCSE maths & English each year. I'll be called elitist for even admitting it but DS is happy, safe and making progress which is all I want.

So yes, this parent is very aware.

And you are contactable all the time. Anyone can access my work email via the school website.

Do people expect a reply at all hours? I'm contactable on my work email at all hours too, but people accept that they generally don't get a reply late at night.

I have two children at different schools. One is a primary with around 200 pupils, the other is a secondary with around 1600 pupils. At both schools, the only way we can contact a teacher is by ringing the school office. We aren't given their email addresses.

inkpaperstars

I would say the poor behaviour is a mixture of the following.
Parent related

• poor diet/increased access to terrible foods. E.g children with adhd turning up to a lesson with a bright blue fizzy drink
• parents who are too busy to discipline them - inc- more single parents due to increased divorce rate, more houses where 2 parents work. This also includes families where there is no male authority figure and the mum is either unwilling or unable to discipline the child. It would probably be the same vice versa (e.g single dads) but that is a far less common scenario
• lack of discipline at home - kids who believe that being told off or not allowed to do what they want is an infringement of their human rights and parents who have taught them this and back them up when they are disciplined.
• over use of screens and computer games at home meaning attention span is nil.

School related

• weak, ineffectual and inexperienced Management promoted because they are good at using spreadsheets and kissing corporate arse

• focus on reducing exclusions so kids get away with more and more outrageous behaviour and other children see this

• lack of vocational opportunities for students who are not academic meaning they are bored and disruptive in lessons. Some of them would have benefited from previous schemes where they spent time in college alongside studying core subjects.

This is my opinion from 14 years of teaching in suburban comprehensives.

The best bit: The sentence "Oooh, I get it now"

The worst bits: having to continuously justify sanctions given after numerous chances given to change their behaviour, having to battle the "I'll just live on benefits" mindset, everything being a priority in a job where too little time is given to any task (displays were meant to be up 3 weeks ago and I still haven't done it, because actually doing my job of teaching and supporting colleagues in my managerial role takes priority in my eyes). Also, currently, having no flexibility to do anything outside of holidays - I urgently need a doctor's appointment and can't even find a surgery, because paperwork has to be completed in person and I can't attend that.

The problem is that people’s experiences have made this thread very black and white. Some teachers have undoubtedly experienced difficult parents (although that was the same when I was at school. There were entire families whose children would get away with murder, because the school were scared of their parents). But, there are also parents who have had to fight for their children’s safety - there is a boy in my child’s class who is violent, causing at least one child to change schools. He is currently making another child’s life an absolutely misery, but the school won’t do anything. I do agree that having constant email and internet contact must be a nightmare. It was clear the school were struggling during lockdown, when their letters contained pleas for parents to not send any more ideas for lesson plans, or ask for clarification on government advice that had only just been released.

I think there a lot of issues not talked about too. My friend is a teacher, in a reasonably well off area, and they keep a good stock of granola bars in the cupboards, for those kids who are not being fed at home. It’s scary how commonplace that is becoming. I do think that teachers are held responsible for far more these days - they are supposed to be able to deal with challenging behaviour, pick up on possible abuse at home, and now cope with switching between school and home learning. All while being scrutinised for failures in the education system (which are really due to lack of funding).

@MushMonster

I am a parent. I have never heard of the swearing, name calling, and throwing things in the primary at all! Neither ours or anyone I know. In secondary, I do hear about some older children smoking, and a sharp object smuggled in. Which must have been quite an awful thing for the teachers to deal with. On the workload, I am at a loss of why is it so much? The curriculum does not change that much from year to year. So you should have most of it ready. The work that they give to mine is not that much. And on the later years it is on-line, so you do not need to even print it. When I was a child though, the teacher did not print anything for us. We had to copy it from the board or our book ourselves. On the reading of work/ exams, I can see it spilling over your own time once they are on the later years. Can you elaborate a bit why it takes you the extra time?

Back when you were at school, the teacher taught to one level, and if the lower ability kids didn't get it and the super bright kids were bored, the planning and curriculum didn't allow for that. And no-one even looked at my planning.

Today every single lesson has to be planned for several different levels and different tasks given for the children at those levels. Each task has to be tied and assessed to specific outcomes. It's really hard to begin to explain how detailed planning and assessment had to be now. And if you move chooses or year groups, or have a more or less able group of kids all that has to change next year, even if there isn't one of the regular curriculum changes.

It takes far far longer to plan a lesson than it does to teach it. And plans are checked by SMT regularly, and assessments recorded constantly.

(Sorry for the typos and autocorrects)

I worked in a primary school for a short time, but l left after being physically assaulted. I was also surprised how unqualified most TA's are.

The best bit: The sentence "Oooh, I get it now"

Oh this makes my day. The last teaching I did was in an FE college teaching GCSE maths. I got an, "Oh I get that, I never understood that at school".

I may have done a little happy dance and told the student that made my day.

I used to work in youth offending, my eyes are wide open. I was also at school some time ago but even then teachers set different work for different levels.
I'm not saying it's an easy job it isn't but to listen to some on here there's no job harder and that's just not true. In my current career we often have teachers on second careers or who want to move on from SLT, we've had half a dozen in the last 2-3 years move of them coped with the nature of the work, or with the discussion style of written work required, they found the subject material harrowing and all in all it was much too stressful. None of them are still in this field and several went back to teaching.
I've worked alongside police, child protection social work, prisons, probation, secure mental health units etc over the years and none of them have it easier and none of them have the holidays to catch up.

I agree with you op.
I worked in school for many years.
I don't now, the school holidays were the reason I started working in education. I needed a job where I could be with my children. I miss it like a whole in the head.
Most of the kids, parents and staff were lovely. Unfortunately some weren't and unlike in other jobs you have to tolerate it.

By the way some of the so called 'problem kid's were my favourites. If I could I would have taken them home with me to live and care for them.

My mother was a primary school teacher. It hasnt changed, at least not since the national curriculum came in etc. she had the same experience as you with behaviour - albeit teaching in a very deprived area. There are schools which are not like this. I remember her regularly working in the evenings.

And you are contactable all the time. Anyone can access my work email via the school website. Kids message me via teams at 10pm at night asking random questions. They are all very lovely but it takes a lot of time to deal with it all. I’m trying to do it all at school.

This constant contact is new since I retired/escaped but I don't think I would be dealing with any email out of school time, don't even look at your work email out of hours! How often can we personally contact our doctor, dentist etc. out of hours?

I'm not saying it's an easy job it isn't but to listen to some on here there's no job harder and that's just not true.

No one on here has said that and in fact, have instead specifically said that teaching is not the hardest job.
I will be the first to admit that it sounds like you have a far harder and more harrowing job.
But please don’t add stress to teachers who speaking out about some issues that they face. You could always start a thread about the issues in your job, to raise awareness of problems in youth offending, instead.

I have to say when I was at school discipline was far, far better and I was educated in a deprived area. The thought of anyone sweating at or attacking a teacher was unheard of. We did had corporal punishment though and the staff were not afraid to use it. Personally it was better. The unruly kids knew where the line was and quite frankly the line to cross was extremely low. At senior school a girl kicked me from behind in PE. I have never seen anyone move as fast as the teacher who dragged her away and she received the punishment for what she did. She was one of the 'cool kid's and I was not. She never, ever crossed my path again. I felt safe and secure and free to learn. Lots of people disagree with the harshness of the time. Strangely enough usually the ones who were total shits. I think schools are far too lenient now. No real discipline. My mum signed the agreement papers to say if I broke the school rules then I would be subject to their punishments. I never got hit and I loved the learning environment.

In all honesty I'm not terribly interested in what happens at my childrens schools as long as they are safe (physically, in the sense of a safe building, but also safe from sexual misconduct and or/violence), happy and learning what they need to learn.

I wouldn't want my child's teacher to offer suggestions to me as to how I do my job, so I feel it's best to keep my nose out of theirs.

Obviously if any of my three criteria are not met, then I would of course be interested and would want to contact the school.

@keeprocking

And you are contactable all the time. Anyone can access my work email via the school website. Kids message me via teams at 10pm at night asking random questions. They are all very lovely but it takes a lot of time to deal with it all. I’m trying to do it all at school.

This constant contact is new since I retired/escaped but I don't think I would be dealing with any email out of school time, don't even look at your work email out of hours! How often can we personally contact our doctor, dentist etc. out of hours?

The constant contact has been made worse by lockdown and the issues of remote learning, variations in technology in homes (digital divide) and a new way of working currently. It’s been a tough 7 months for all (and by that I mean, parents, children and teachers and teachers who are also parents )