To be annoyed at new boss' pregnancy?

[Biscoffscoff]

Ok so I know I probably am. But I need to vent (and preferably not at a pregnant woman) And maybe get some advice about boundaries.

I work in child protection, and it's a stressful job. I'm not going to complain about that part - you have to accept that when you choose the role. But having a good manager makes a massive difference to being able to do the job without burning out, especially as good supervision helps deal with the emotional side of the work. The nature of the job means it's very difficult for people to cover if a manager isn't available - not just because the other managers are too busy with their teams but even if they were free, the manager needs to know the families and the dynamics to be able to help.

The woman who got the managers job used to do (my level) job years ago, so she knows what it's like to be in it. She left to move away from front line work as she wanted more a break/more predictable hours. I was surprised to hear that she'd gone for the job.

A month into post and she's announced her pregnancy. She's already had to take quite a lot of time off sick, or working from home - the team aren't WFH and not having the manager in the building is difficult.

I can't help but be a little bit peed off that she went for this job. She got married earlier in the year and from what I've heard from colleagues in her old team, she was very open about hopes of starting a family once she was married. I know noone knows when/if it's going to happen when TTC but her old job was secure and far less stress, so I just feel a bit peeved that she chose this time to go for this job. I can't imagine that she would/could return to the post after mat leave - the job really isn't accommodating for childcare. I know thats not very feminist but it's the reality - its mainly a female workforce and people usually move out of this part to have kids and move back when they're older.

New boss is already asking me to cover for tasks when she's not in, or in late/leaving early, eg supporting less experienced colleagues. I'm also struggling with the idea that I've got no real support for the next six months - doesn't feel like there's any point getting her up to speed when she'll be off soon.

How do I put in boundaries about the extra work that's being expected of me when new boss isn't around? And how do I get past being annoyed that new boss is going to be just passing through, and not really there for support ?

Was her contract before permanent?

Honestly, if one manager working from home and being ill causes this many issues, then the issue is how staffing levels in general are managed.

@VodselForDinner

OP: AIBU?

Majority of MN: YES!

OP stomps foot and tries to control other women’s bodies and careers what others post.

I think the OP's actually been quite measured and her posts don't come across as stomping her foot. And as for trying to control women's bodies and careers - that's rather hysterical. She's posted asking for advice, people have disagreed and explained why, and OP has generally been quite reasonable in her responses in trying to articulate why she feels the way she does. Where on earth have you extrapolated that she's trying to control women's bodies and careers?

@PearPickingPorky Yes! To both your posts. This is a structural problem within the children's services. SW is hard enough without us being told that we need to treat it as a vocation and dedicate EVERYTHING we are to it. Especially as that is a contribution to the levels of burnout happening.

While at uni, it was stressed to us on so many occasions that SW is NOT a vocation, it's a job and needs to be treated as such for our own mental health and wellbeing. Shame on the people here telling SWs that they need to sacrifice all in order to do this job effectively.

I think when you come up against something like this that feels a bit rubbish for you individually you have to think about the logical conclusion of the thought. In this instance it is that no woman who might be planning a family can go for management roles or indeed any change in career. That is clearly not reasonable and is discriminatory. I work in a similar field and it is unsettling when things change but having management cover for long term sick, unpaid leave, compassionate leave etc etc goes with the territory. You might get some one really good , with great ideas, someone from the team might step up . When you feel you are only just coping it is hard but YABU .

OP I do understand your frustration about a lack of consistency in managers. I'm currently on my fifth line manager in 12 months, and I completely get it when you talk about being tired of having to keep re-explaining things. However as PP have said, future managers might bring some good things to the table even if they are only temp. One of my interim managers had some useful feedback which I've implemented and has had some positive changes.

Those people saying do your hours and walk out at 5pm....

Do you not appreciate there are some jobs where you just can’t do that. Kids at risk... legal proceedings etc.
It’s not always that easy.

Where on earth have you extrapolated that she's trying to control women's bodies and careers?

She’s started a thread based on the very fact that she’s annoyed that her boss is pregnant and has stated that she doesn’t feel her boss should have taken up the role knowing she was pregnant.

If it was up to the OP, either her boss wouldn’t be pregnant, or she wouldn’t have been given the role.

@DiddlySquat there's a difference between understanding that you can't just up and leave at 5pm and being told that you must see the role as all consuming. Of course SW comes with working more than 40 hours a week and not being able to leave on time regularly but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't plan to have a family or a social life. It's not either/or and should never be framed that way.

Document the work load.
If she ask you to write a report for the afternoon, tell her you had XYZ to do this morning, writing her report means either the jobs won't get done , or you will do XYZ this afternoon so ABC will need to be sort tomorrow.

I've said earlier in thread, but the job is a change from strategic to frontline, both jobs are permanent, it's not a promotion. If it was a promotion or career changing or security Id understand. Her previous role would have more opportunities for ladder climbing, despite what people have told me on here about my nefarious attempts to keep women below the glass ceiling. I accept there may be things about the other job she didn't like that I don't know about, from the outside it's an unusual choice to make.

Some roles are more autonomous and are a good fit for working from home. This role is very relationship based and is not effective to be done from home, particularly when you're doing so from the start without those relationships in place, nor is it one that other people from other teams can just jump in on. It's only right that the families who are affected by the decisions made, have those decisions made by people who know their circumstances over time, not an anonymous manager from another team who is given a five minute overview and asked to rubber stamp something. The latter issue means that even if other managers assist, they invariably come to the workers for the input and that creates a burden on our team. Its really important when doing this job to trust in your managers decisions and their knowledge of a case and working without that feels unsafe. I know we'll get through it, I'm just disappointed. I hadn't realised until she announced the news how much id been affected by the management instability.

I hadn't realised until she announced the news how much id been affected by the management instability.

And that's the real issue.

@dontwantamirena

YANBU. Unpopular opinion, but purposely having having a child is a personal interest project. Yes it’s something a lot of women want but it’s not a “need”. Yes women should be supported with maternity leave etc but the world does not revolve around them having a child. No other type of personal project would be allowed to affect a team’s ability to work to this degree. Her choice was to try for a child AND to apply for the job. Even if really wanted a child right now she could have held off TTC for a bit until the job was settled. It’s just very unfair of her to knowingly make the work of others more difficult because of her personal wants to have a child. Taking a job you know you might not be able to fulfil is very unreasonable. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Agree with the other posters that say this kind of thing makes it difficult for women of childbearing age to get promotions. Putting your own personal wants above other women is anti-feminist.

Actually not really as pregnancy status would fall under a protected characteristic ...

@mummy2017 I'm guessing you've not done social work. We document until the cows come home. If I'm told I need to do something different to what's in my diary, I'll say 'I've got X y z and no scope to rearrange'. I'll be told the first thing needs to be prioritized - which I get, it's safeguarding, it has to be done. But that doesn't stop me being accountable for the tasks I've just had to cancel. I'll be held accountable by the families and by other professionals in other agencies. We don't have anyone to delegate to and we can't just turn up to court a few months later and say i didn't do X y and z because my manager told me to do something else on the day. That's why the role invariably involves working the additional hours, because the work still has to be done. If you refuse to do it out of principle you're either putting a child at risk, letting a child down (eg failing to arrange something that makes a difference in their lives, like contact with family) or you're risking your registration (eg failing to keep sufficient records or failing to do tasks expected of you by the court). There is a lot we don't get done, noone pretends to try and do it all, but theres enough core work to do that 'taking a stance' isn't viable. When you get to that point you leave. It's how the system is, there's a lot wrong with it, but I want to do a few more years yet as I feel it's an important job and despite how I might come across in the thread, it is one that at least some of the time I enjoy!

@Biscoffscoff

Ok so I know I probably am. But I need to vent (and preferably not at a pregnant woman) And maybe get some advice about boundaries.

I work in child protection, and it's a stressful job. I'm not going to complain about that part - you have to accept that when you choose the role. But having a good manager makes a massive difference to being able to do the job without burning out, especially as good supervision helps deal with the emotional side of the work. The nature of the job means it's very difficult for people to cover if a manager isn't available - not just because the other managers are too busy with their teams but even if they were free, the manager needs to know the families and the dynamics to be able to help.

The woman who got the managers job used to do (my level) job years ago, so she knows what it's like to be in it. She left to move away from front line work as she wanted more a break/more predictable hours. I was surprised to hear that she'd gone for the job.

A month into post and she's announced her pregnancy. She's already had to take quite a lot of time off sick, or working from home - the team aren't WFH and not having the manager in the building is difficult.

I can't help but be a little bit peed off that she went for this job. She got married earlier in the year and from what I've heard from colleagues in her old team, she was very open about hopes of starting a family once she was married. I know noone knows when/if it's going to happen when TTC but her old job was secure and far less stress, so I just feel a bit peeved that she chose this time to go for this job. I can't imagine that she would/could return to the post after mat leave - the job really isn't accommodating for childcare. I know thats not very feminist but it's the reality - its mainly a female workforce and people usually move out of this part to have kids and move back when they're older.

New boss is already asking me to cover for tasks when she's not in, or in late/leaving early, eg supporting less experienced colleagues. I'm also struggling with the idea that I've got no real support for the next six months - doesn't feel like there's any point getting her up to speed when she'll be off soon.

How do I put in boundaries about the extra work that's being expected of me when new boss isn't around? And how do I get past being annoyed that new boss is going to be just passing through, and not really there for support ?

@VodselForDinner

From the OP's first post:

Ok so I know I probably am. But I need to vent (and preferably not at a pregnant woman) And maybe get some advice about boundaries.

And:

How do I put in boundaries about the extra work that's being expected of me when new boss isn't around? And how do I get past being annoyed that new boss is going to be just passing through, and not really there for support?

From the get-go OP's been asking for advice on putting in boundaries and her opening line is literally that she probably IBU. Her feelings about her boss do not translate across to all women- which is what you said, that she was trying to control all women and their careers - as she's been quite clear about the reasons for her feeling this was about this particular role and sector.

Anyway -

OP YABU but you know that. The situation does sound quite difficult but you've had some practical advice and hopefully you'll find a way forward.

Hi OP, maybe you need to talk to the more senior managers about this situation because it does sound like you are being expected to do the impossible on top of the already impossible. Some workers can apparenly live with the dread, exhaustion and awful pressure or cope with feeling they are constantly failing but in the end I couldn't any longer and left. In my experience sadly no one really cares or can do anything about it, there are always next years new workers coming through. Hope you've got some good colleagues around you.

All the people who are like ‘just walk out and refuse to do XYZ’ are clearly not in jobs where lives are at stake, where people can get genuinely hurt or have poor outcomes if they just sack off work that needs doing.

It doesn’t matter if it is a structural issue (again, what structure is there in workplaces where people can just absorb 50% of someone else’s workload on an ad hoc basis??), the issue is here and now for the OP and no amount of long term trying to change the way the departments are run is going to help NOW.

Also - does nobody else have a job where they are the only one who knows certain things and it would be a right pain if they suddenly left?? I mean people would work it out but if I just stopped going in then stuff would definitely get missed. :/

YADBU

I appreciate that you are concerned about the extra work and stress that will lead to but that isn't this woman's fault. You need to raise these issues with the higher ups.

As for your views on which job is best for her, its literally none of your business. She applied and obviously impressed as she was appointed.

You also don't know whether she has been having a particularly difficult pregnancy or illnesses related to her pregnancy which necessitate her working from home for now.

Doesn't matter how important the job is or how many people are affected you need to make time for yourself and your own life. If you don't you'll always be the one left to pick up the extra load. 'Leave it to Biscoff she'll manage, she'll help'.

Don't you have your own family and friends? They also need your time. My uncle was an undertaker and he always came up with the old saying that the world was full of indispensable people and he buried lots of them. All these cases may be important and need dealing with but so are you. You need time to laugh and love and be with friends and family. If extra work comes in add it to the pile, make two piles, yours and hers, do hers after yours. Tell people any work will be done when you can. Go home (or stop working) at a reasonable time and enjoy life while you can. Don't take on responsibility for the problems of the world, most of us have enough of our own.

Some roles are more autonomous and are a good fit for working from home. This role is very relationship based and is not effective to be done from home, particularly when you're doing so from the start without those relationships in place, nor is it one that other people from other teams can just jump in on. It's only right that the families who are affected by the decisions made, have those decisions made by people who know their circumstances over time, not an anonymous manager from another team who is given a five minute overview and asked to rubber stamp something

She hasn't taken the job because she wants to WFH
She's applied for a job that she's interested in and due to being pregnant has had to work from home as part of reasonable adjustments.

Given it can take years to conceive are you seriously suggesting that women should put off developing their careers and professional interests just in case they manage to conceive?

If there are issues with how management are handling her absence and allocating work then that needs addressing, but leave the fact your manager had the audacity to get a new job whilst pregnant out of it.

OP I work in the same field as you so I do understand the additional pressure this will put on her team

Can I ask did you apply for this job and missed out to her? Do you think you are jealous that she got the promotion and you either did not or you are now regretting you did not apply for the promotion?

If you are the next most senior person in the team could you use this to show you have the right skills to support the team while she is off, write down everything you do that is outside of your job spec and use it for your own CPD.

I do feel that women need to support women as we cannot change biology but if I was you I would be seeing this as a career opputunity for you.

In a previous update OP said that she did not apply for hlthis job and is not interested in it

Yanbu. And it’s not remotely comparable to an illness. Pregnancy is not an illness, and women need to stop behaving as if it is, because this is part of the problem.

People don’t plan to fall ill and have cancer etc, but people do plan to fall pregnant. And nobody plans for it to take years, if you TTC then the idea is that you want to be pregnant now and if it takes longer then that’s just unfortunate.

it’s women like her who make it harder for other women to be fairly treated.

As for “the majority of mn” thinking the OP is unreasonable, actually it might be a majority but it’s a small majority (38 vs 62%), so perhaps don’t accuse the OP of stamping her foot when some don’t agree, because an awful lot do agree with her.

it’s women like her who make it harder for other women to be fairly treated

No it isn't. It's underfunding of departments so that they have inefficient and inadequate staffing and management structures that can withstand someone being off, for whatever reason. There is zero business continuity in this set up, and rather than blame women (the government thanks you though for blaming the staff and not them) people should be fighting for a fairer system, where people don't have to do over their hours routinely or people suffer, or where someone is guilted into taking jobs because it allows them to dare to be off if needed. The more people just accept it and berate those who go against that, the less that will change. That's the real issue and the real problem we as a society should all be appalled by. Not a pregnant woman.

@AlternativePerspective

Pregnancy isn't an illness no and I don't think people are saying it is, but pregnancy can cause illnesses that are unplanned and additionally we are in the middle of a global pandemic. An if she is struggling its actually none of the OPs business anyway.

I honestly can't believe someone with these views exists in 2020.