To think this I should complain - possible sexism in year 4?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

DD is in year 4, a new girl started at the beginning of term. I've been chatting to her mum in the playground and she said she's painfully shy and a bit worried about fitting in. DD(8) has said that she's tried playing with her in the playground but she doesn't say much and is so shy she often slumps off if there's a group situation.

Anyway, DD told me that all the girls in her class got a house point each yesterday. She said it's because they all, on instruction from the teacher, played with the new girl. I asked was it just the girls and not the boys getting house points? And she said the teacher only asked the girls to play with her because (in the words of the teacher apparently) "the boys aren't sensible enough to play nicely with her".

Now, as a teacher myself (though I teach older teens) I am well aware we have to take what's said at home by children with a huge pinch of salt. But, DD doesn't tend to make things up or embellish, she's very mature for her age. So, let's say we are taking what she says as true - AIBU to think it's sexist that only the girls have to do the care giving and welcoming to other pupils and all of the boys are written of as hopeless? There are quite a number of boisterous boys in the class but also some very friendly, sweet and sensitive boys too.

I have virtual parents evening next week and thinking of raising it. WWYD?

Oh please, let it go, so much more to worry about.

A new, painfully shy girl is not, generally speaking, going to open up to boys in quite the same way she would to a group of kind friendly girls.

I was a painfully shy wee girl who absolutely would have opened up better to the boys than the girls. I was terrified of girls as a primary school aged child and played only with the boys at break times.

Girls on a one-to-one basis, usually outside of school, I could handle, but more than one, and in a school setting, no chance.

By instructing only the girls to play with the new girl, not only is the teacher embedding sexist stereotypes about girls, but denying the new kid a chance to see if she might gel better with one/some of the boys in the class.

I don't think you're overreacting at all. However, it's not really something that you can address at a parents' evening. I agree with pp that it's a good time to explain to your daughter about stereotypes.

Stereotypes often have a grain of truth. Of course there are exceptions, but until this thread, I never thought I would come across people who thought forcing boys onto a painfully shy little girl was ever at all appropriate. I could perhaps see it if the girl was a tomboy, outgoing, loud etc. But generally speaking a painfully shy, quiet little girl is going to react a lot better to other little girls than boys.

I think we need to be careful here that we aren't eager to be so woke that we cast aside what is right for the little girl. There are other times to over-come gender stereotypes, a new girl at a new school I don't think is the time to attempt this woke social engineering. What if the boys are loud and aggressive and upsets her and she clams up even more? The damage you do could take a bit to undo.

The best interests of the poor little should be first and foremost. Not creating some woke thing just for sake of it. I think people are forgetting the best interests of the little girl in this, in an attempt to be 'non-sexist'. I came across a facebook comment on one of the pages I follow about a girl being upset because she couldn't see a female Doctor at a woman's clinic, with another woman saying she was being 'sexist'. I replied back I thought the other woman was being offensive and insensitive and no one knows if she was traumatised, or raped, or whatever. That women should have the right to feel comfortable with a Dr of their choice. It's the same sort of principle. Sort of like those brides who force mixed-table receptions where strangers are seated together instead of with family/friends. Again, same principle - trying to be all trendy and woke, but, it's not really think about what is in the best interest of the guests and how they feel. I think being 'woke' can do far more harm than good sometimes, and the pendulum is going too far, to the extent other women are ganging up on a woman who simply wants to see a female Dr at a female clinic, or to the extent that we are ignoring basic biological and temperamental differences in boys and girls. I'm very much pro-woman and a feminist, I'm various pro-choice and pro women/pro-JKR/Gender Critical forums, so it's not like I want conservatism or tradition. I just think we should be putting the comfort of the little girl at heart, and not use her discomfort as some experiment for wokeness.

Stereotypes often have a grain of truth. Of course there are exceptions, but until this thread, I never thought I would come across people who thought forcing boys onto a painfully shy little girl was ever at all appropriate. I could perhaps see it if the girl was a tomboy, outgoing, loud etc. But generally speaking a painfully shy, quiet little girl is going to react a lot better to other little girls than boys

Little boys aren't all mini Damiens. In DD's class some are way more gentle and kind than some of the girls. It's just a horrible stereotype to think that girls prefer other g told than they do boys.

Also not wanting men to examine a grown woman intimately is NOTHING LIKE the same as keeping an 8yo away from her male peers.

@Pyewhacket

Do you think a shy 8 year old girl is going react favourably to a bunch of noisy , marginally bonkers, lads. I guess if she can play football and name every player in the premier league it might work.

And this is what we are up against.

DH has never kicked a football outside of a PE lesson, never could and still can’t name any football players and would much sooner spend his time drawing or reading when he was a child.
Not all boys are crazy football kicking noisy idiots.
By insinuating such you are saying that quiet and thoughtful boys aren’t being boys properly.

I think if this new girl is very shy it was felt that odds are she will feel more comfortable with other girls. I am sure if it was a boy that was shy they would encourage the boys to make an extra effort. Yes some girls might feel more comfortable around boys or feel comfortable in mixed groups right away but a lot of shy girls won't. Chances are most girls while being perfectly able to open up to other girls easier then to boys

I'm a teacher and yes I would say something . I am constantly challenging the stereotypes in my classroom .

I expect the teacher has a point about the year 4 boys. She knows them better than you do.

I think YABU, when speaking to my sons they both said they only play with boys (year 2 and year 4) and my daughter only has female friends (year 5) it’s completely normal, I think you will look insane tbh

@Givemeabreak88

I think YABU, when speaking to my sons they both said they only play with boys (year 2 and year 4) and my daughter only has female friends (year 5) it’s completely normal, I think you will look insane tbh

Well, that doesn't speak for the entire population. In DD's class the boys and girls play with each other, they do in DS's reception class too. I think it's a shame (and eating right into gender segregation and stereotyping) that this is just accepted 🤷‍♀️

@GlummyMcGlummerson that is not the norm growing up I went to 5 schools and from what I observed this seems to be very much the norm also the children I au paired for again the same. That does not mean they have no mixed friends just during school hours it tended to not be mixed

All of my best friends when I was young and even today are boys/men.
Damn. No idea all of us were some kind of crazy non gender conforming people.

Well it’s been normal with every kid I know, even on the estate I live the boys play with the boys the girls play with the girls 🤷‍♀️

You're jumping on a feminism bandwagon here, and looking for brownie points for doing it.. Generally speaking, girls play with girls at that age and boys play with boys. Teachers have enough to do without parents rocking up to have a whinge about their latest fad.

@crimsonlake

Seroiusly? As a teacher yourself who surely knows how difficult the job has become when parent's feel entitled to complain about the slightest thing, you plan to bring this up??

Brilliant

I could perhaps see it if the girl was a tomboy, outgoing, loud etc.

You can be a tomboy AND shy. I was. I was mostly shy because I knew even from a very young age that my interests and ways of playing were not what other girls liked. So I was shy to avoid the bullying and teasing from girls. I got along better with boys because we had the same interests and imaginative play. Not because of stereotypes about being “loud”

This thread has depressed me. Jumping on the feminism bandwagon? Teachers have too much to do to be expected not to oppose discrimination? Fuck me.

I would gently raise the question with the teacher.

feminism bandwagon FFS!

@Pyewhacket

Do you think a shy 8 year old girl is going react favourably to a bunch of noisy , marginally bonkers, lads. I guess if she can play football and name every player in the premier league it might work.

This is an incredibly sexist post.

I agree with you buy would probably just mention it as a 'in the context of relevant conversation' point rather than dedicated complaint. I know alot of people think these sorts of things are minor but all of these things add up in society to box us into gender roles so probably should be challenged. My friend's child was at a school where they had girls tables and boys tables, trays for boys water bottles and trays for girls water bottles separately, and girls coat pegs in one section with stereotypically girlie stickers and then boys in another. That sort of thing I might raise as a more specific complaint as really unnecessary and clear us and them separation for absolute nonsense reason. Here I can see why the teacher might think girls welcoming girls makes sense albeit agree with what you're saying.

@Stompythedinosaur

This thread has depressed me. Jumping on the feminism bandwagon? Teachers have too much to do to be expected not to oppose discrimination? Fuck me.

agreed. This is why when people say sexism isn't really a thing anymore I'm like erm yes it very much is!

absolutely!