What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

It’s because wimen are the ones doing the complaining.

You din’t hear the same level of complaint by men, about boys’ rambunctious behaviour.

There’s no getting away from the fact that there are developmental differences (briadly speaking) between boys and girls, and what’s going wrong is that boys are being brought up by primarily women, and attend institutions (nurseries and primary schools) deaigned by women, who are less tolerant and accepting of boys’ “rough” behaviour.

If men were equally represented in eary childhood care we would have more balanced expectations of boys and boys would flourish.

@Pancakeorcrepe

I can’t believe some people are saying boys are let down by society. They have advantages everywhere! We still live in a very sexist society! I’m also wondering why parents of a boy and a girl feel like they have authority to come out with adamant facts out of a tiny sample. Look at the statistics of crime - these undisciplined and indulged boys become rapists, abusers, criminals and murderers to a MUCH greater extent than women. They have all the advantages without having to put in any of the work and that doesn’t setup anyone for life.

This does not mean they are being failed,especially in their formative years.

So many boys can't express feelings beyond angry,sad,happy and sometimes scared. That's their emotional range. That's what they act out.As the years pass by, a lot of them learn the vocabulary for an extended range of emotions, but it's all meaningless parroting because they aren't taught what these feelings are,how they manifest,how sometimes they can look like something else,how to cope with the variety of feelings. Not just that, but a lot of the time they have (mostly) the same basic feelings imposed on them. Most negative feelings (fear,anxiety,frustration,worrying, confusion etc) gets labeled as angry. Then, even if it's in a constructive,non disrupting/violent way ,all they learn is to express anger and that anything that's not positive is anger. This will also apply to how they perceive others reacting to them.

I only have boys, neither have ever been any bother in school. They both had a mix of ill behaved boys and girls in the class. I'd say some of children are better at getting away with things, imo boys tend to get called out more often as they have a need to play the class clown for attention. They get attention for misbehaving more often than they get attention for being quiet. Girls from a young age get attention for being quiet, colouring inside the lines etc.

Upshot is I haven't gone wrong with my boys, what the rest of you are doing to cause the problem I have no idea!

I'm not sure about the boys having limited emotional intelligence thing though - my son is much more likely than my daughter to know what he is feeling and communicate it to me.

If men were equally represented in eary childhood care we would have more balanced expectations of boys and boys would flourish.

Funnily enough my boys who've never been any bother were looked after full time by DH until school age. Both had a male teacher (same one) for their latter years in primary school

From my experience from learning with things one important thing I noticed is that the more emotionally aware a child is and the more able they are to identify and understand their own emotions and others, the less likely they are to end up in a conflict ,whichever form it might take.

@Bumpsadaisie

I'm not sure about the boys having limited emotional intelligence thing though - my son is much more likely than my daughter to know what he is feeling and communicate it to me.

I'm talking as a group/class rather than individuals . Having said that,how is his behaviour?

I do not condone violence and if either of my dc display this, they are punished. However, I do find it bizarre that if my ds hit his friend or vice versa, they are vilified by the school and teachers as troublemakers. Whereas if a girl says unbearably cruel comments to my dd and the teacher finds out, they do nothing except have a quiet chat with them about being kind and the girl goes on her merry way without having been stereotyped as a trouble maker.

I know plenty of well-behaved boys, and some revolting naughty ones. They're the ones with parents who go "Now Grayson, we don't hit, do we? No we don't my little prince. Here, have an expensive treat." Or just give up and send their kids out to roam the streets around the age of 7, because "that's what boys do."

I also know well-behaved girls, and revolting ones, who are violent and shout angrily at anyone who tries to discipline them.

It's bad parenting. Whether parents choose to poorly-parent their boys more than their girls could be a factor. Boys are permitted to be "free" whilst girls are kept at home to do chores. Boys behaviour is then dismissed.

I have 2 boys. I get a lot of opposing feedback on my parenting style. Teachers are always telling me that my DBs are full of enthusiasm, hardworking and polite and other parents have been openly rude saying my parenting is very strict and military like. I lived overseas until DC1 was 10 years old and so I wasn't influenced to how people parent here. I also have older brothers and 4 nephews so saw how they all turned out.

I think there are parenting issues here in the UK and that affects both sexes. I can see that a lot of my DS's friends are now failing as teenagers, when they were polite and doing well at school in primary and I think it is down to a number of things. I think a lot of these boys are spoilt and lacking in discipline and boundaries. They don't have any hobbies. I also hear a lot of their parents say things like they won't do their homework and they will just let the school discipline them over it. I just don't get this. I wouldn't let my DC fail like that. I would be enforcing at home that you have to do your homework or there are consequences e.g. no pocket money or you are not going out with your mates until you have done it.

I think boys need lots of love and cuddles, loads of energy burning activities but also rules and boundaries. We have too many unproductive men in our society and it is down to them being lost. They are like a shaken can of coke waiting to explode.

I think the best thing we can do is not make sweeping generalisations about the different sexes beyond obvious physical differences.
I have boys and they are conpletely different from each other. It’s almost like... they are distinct people...

As I started the dance chat - glad to hear of the boys doing classes. The ballet thing is interesting as round here there is street dance and that seems to be as widespread as ballet. There is also plenty of space in the musical theatre classes which are more jazz and tap. Local drama group did bugsy malone which is gender equal but still more girls go than boys. So I do think parents are pro football/gaming etc and other activities versus things that might seem more female although by professional level drama and dance there are often more men in it (eg tv acting and direction).

As a former teacher, I always found boys to be naturally more boisterous than girls. It isn't 'wrong,' it's normal. In the playground, the boys would often tumble around on the grass in play fights. They always reminded me of young lion cubs, just doing what came naturally to them. I think the instinct to sort out a hierarchical structure is still there.

Boys also get blamed for things a lot of the time. There are some quite manipulative girls at my sons school, they start things and then play the "girl card" with teachers when they get a response back. The teachers in my experience always blame the boys. Gets on my wick.

I also hear a lot of their parents say things like they won't do their homework and they will just let the school discipline them over it. I just don't get this. I wouldn't let my DC fail like that. I would be enforcing at home that you have to do your homework or there are consequences e.g. no pocket money or you are not going out with your mates until you have done it.

I disciplined my boys over lots of things but never homework. They did well at school, both at University and doing well. Homework is for the school and pupil to learn to manage. If they don't learn to do the work that school sets them, of their own volition, it soesn't set them up to be able to manage further or higher education imo.

DS1 always seemed to manage himself, DS2 (subsequently diagnosed with dyspraxia) didn't do as well in terms of planning and did get a couple of slips home saying he hadn't submitted work on time. I saw that as an opportunity for support rather than one for punishment. He was really upset actually as he wasn't used to being in trouble.

That said, i guess if they weren't doing well educationally I might have thought differently.

I think i was maybe overly strict with them when they were little but I'm probably overly soft with them now as young adults, not that they do anything wrong, I'm just a bit of an indulgent/overly generous parent.

Sorry hadn't quite finished...

Example: girl kicks boy in legs while hes sitting in a bench at school, because she wants to sit down. After multiple kicks and some shoving, boy stands up and shouts at girl to stop. Que tears from girl, over to teacher to say he had been kicked and shouted at. Teachers assume boys are the problem all the time....

And yes this "boy" is my son. He is very kind, has good manners and is well behaved. If I'm low he notices and hugs me, so I know hes emotionally intelligent and caring.

*to say SHE had been kicked

You could say schools aren’t set up in a way that allows boys to flourish. Play is very quickly took off the table, some children (girls too) learn much better if they can physically do things.

My son and his friends play quite roughly (they have a ninja team) and playtimes consist of them fighting each other. They’ve got in trouble a few times when things get a bit rowdy which is fair enough but I don’t see anything wrong with playing in that way. They are children, we should stop trying to fit square pegs in to round holes.

I think a lot of the reason that girls are 'sneaky and bitchy and manipulative' as well is because they aren't allowed the opportunity to get their feelings out in the open as much. A boy is upset about sharing a toy or something, there might be a bit of a tick, some shouting, even a bit of rough and tumble, but 'boys will be boys' right. A girl has the same feelings, we have to compromise, be kind, share our things, make friends. So the girls have these same feelings but are not allowed the same sort of outlet, so they find other ways, which is where the 'sneakiness' comes in.

Fuck me the internalised misogyny is overwhelming.

Girls aren’t curious, they’re not ‘naturally’ boisterous (this is actively discouraged in girls from the earliest possible age you muppets), they’re manipulative liars scheming to get the boys into trouble......

What is it like to actually drip with contempt for your own sex?

How is any adult so stupid they’ve never noticed the qualities they’re describing as inherently male are actively policed in and drummed out of girls?

The dearth of critical thinking is frankly embarrassing.

@DangerMouse17

Sorry hadn't quite finished...

Example: girl kicks boy in legs while hes sitting in a bench at school, because she wants to sit down. After multiple kicks and some shoving, boy stands up and shouts at girl to stop. Que tears from girl, over to teacher to say he had been kicked and shouted at. Teachers assume boys are the problem all the time....

And yes this "boy" is my son. He is very kind, has good manners and is well behaved. If I'm low he notices and hugs me, so I know hes emotionally intelligent and caring.

@DangerMouse17

My ds was punched in the arm by a girl at school...quite honestly, despite my no violence ever chats, if she'd been a boy, he may have hit back. As it was, he didn't retaliate because she is a girl.

I can well imagine the situation you described when your ds is chastised for making the 'poor, innocent' girl cry.

Theres an awful lot of sexist comments on here. My son has the same ability to identify his emotions as his sister on he is lovely.

His primary school had openly discriminatory attitudes to boys. It played a bug part in my decision to put him in a boys school for secondsry school.

In my fairly large family, from my parents 12 grandchildren, 8 boys and 4 girls, 2 of the girls (different families) were by far the most boisterous.

Don't get me wrong, lovely girls who grown up to be lovely women, but wild as young children and both often in trouble in primary school. It's personality really, the boys and other girls were just far more laid back, this fits with the general family demeanor.

Boys mature slowly compared to girls, it’s really unfair the system teaches by age not maturity. Also girls are naughty but in a sneaky way, think low level bullying, and quiet deception, boys are louder and prouder about their antics.