What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

I think kids need a lot of exercise and outdoor time. The kids I know who are sporty or spend lots of time outdoors do seem to be calmer indoors. Even the teenagers.

@Newgirls well there's sexism. But also dance classes for 4 year olds arent usually that energetic (ballet and rap at least). And I say that as a mum of a son who has danced since age 4 (now 12). It only gets to be high intensity later on not when they are all at the wobbling about watching their feet stage.

tap

As a child on our transfer day to middle school we had to do a labelled picture of what we thought our teacher would probably be like. I put sexist. Ignoring the fact that it was not a socially intelligent move to use a word with 'sex' in it in front of a new group of 9 year olds, nor to point out that the only thing that all my teachers thus far had in common was a negative one, statistically speaking I was likely to be right. As an adult everything I've read points to the fact that boys get more teacher time and attention (getting to do the fun physical stuff when the girls didn't was probably just my area).
Now in my work I've looked at factors that mean a child is likely to end up excluded from school. Postcode, SEN, moving around a lot are factors. So is being male.
So, are the boys getting all the teacher time and the fun 'jobs' because teachers are inherently sexist? Or are boys getting all the additional teacher time because they NEED more support than the girls?

Statistically girls fare better in single sex schools and boys in mixed - oh look which model is followed mainly!

I've a daughter who fits in the 'needs walking like a puppy' category. But all other expectations of her are high. All my kids have always been expected to sit at a table to eat, (the example upthread) but I've not had to reinforce this with visiting girls like I do with visiting boys. Is this because the girls are raised with better manners? I doubt it as many of them have siblings. So for some reason the girls are motivated to be polite and please their host, and the boys are motivated to just do what they want. I think there is stronger social disapproval for boisterous girls than boys, and stronger reward for girls being helpful and caring.

As a mother of one boy and one girl.. Very close in age

I believed in the sayinf that girls and boys are socialised with their differences and it’s not their nature...

Until I had my second child and was shocked to see the difference staring at me from babyhood...

Despite that they wore each other’s clothes.. played with the same toys. Exact same treatment .

I’m sure mums of mine identical boy/girl twins can confirm..

There are obvious behavioural differences and whoever marketed this lie has deceived us all.

Our boys are being vilified that’s what’s happening and it makes me cross that I participated in that bull crap.

My sweet little boy is full of energy.. that’s what’s wrong with him. He is a lot more physical and less engaged by expressive activities and more engaged by explorative snd physical ones..

My girl is much more interested in humans and babies expression and communication...

My boy is more into analysing and copying his dad

My daughter is more into analysing me..

So.... let’s not vilify normal behaviour..

My boys best friend is a girl and from early stages I could see she holds the pen better.. she doesn’t lose focus when she is adventuring in the open but he does..

We played together everyday since he was 1...

And I was at his neck trying to force him to be as “well behaved” as his female toddler friend..

This is what happened ... I gave birth to a daughter and I realized she was naturally inclined with her social skills from few months old than he was, I realised I was vilifying him for not being a girl.... and raising him to be ashamed of being a boy

Thanks Mumsnet!

I've never agreed with the 'boys will be boys' bullshit.

From my own observations on my own son and friends sons, they do tend to be far more boisterous, energetic, vocal, more prone to emotional outbursts and more likely to throw their weight around. IMO it needs to be carefully managed and not let them get away with awful behaviour just because they're male.

but the fact is that a missing father can have a huge impact on a boy’s life. I'm sure that is true but my father died when I was a child and it had a huge impact on me. I left my grammar school at 15 and went in to a series of dead end jobs, had a baby at 17 and finally made it to university at 31. I don't regret any of it now but my life would have been different if my father hadn't died so young.

In my son's year one class, the naughty child is a girl with a frilly double barreled name.

Boys just do t get told off for naughty behaviour anywhere to the extent that girls do.

This applies to parents, grandparents,teachers, everyone.

Boys just do t get told off for naughty behaviour anywhere to the extent that girls do. I see the opposite.

I think children are "difficult" in different ways, depending on the individual.

One thing about school is that I think it does favour girls, as (in general - and I recognise it is a huge generalisation, so please don't jump down my throat!) girls are better at sitting down and doing stuff; boys need action - they need to be running about and their tolerance of sitting to a task is often less. Often short sharp bursts of learning suit them better.

Clearly there are exceptions to this "rule" - but watching my GC I can see that the boys are very different in their behaviour patterns to my girls and the GDs.

I do not think out education system serves boys well.

Dance classes are probably too controlled, too focussed on technique and learning steps or moves. They are not a particularly good way for a child of any sex to 'let off steam'.

I have 2 boys and 1 girl.
At the age of 5/6 when they start school....
Eldest boy loved nothing better than to sit and read
Girl loved to draw and write, sit and do crafts etc
Youngest boy wanted to run and climb and play with Lego and build things.

School is much more geared towards sitting nicely so any behaviour outside of that is automatically seen as negative.

My boys are very well behaved at school or for other people looking after them such as grandparents or friends. They’re quiet, hardworking and nice and respectful to other children so I’m extremely happy about that.

My boys mainly play up when they’re at home and in each other’s faces. At least with that they’re not bothering anyone else... apart from me.

On the whole when we’re out in public, they are good for me. When we need to go on the bus or to the shops, I actively make sure they are good and to stand still and be quiet/walk quietly. Obviously they’re not perfect though.

If I take them to the park or to a play centre they’re always good are aware of those around them. My eldest when he was 8, shared his football with a little girl half his age who wanted to play with him. He kept kicking it to her gently and she kicked it back. That was a little proud moment of mine which I’ll never forget.

Boys and girls are not physically the same because sex. Male and female animals are not physically emotionally or behaviourally the same because sex. Humans are no different- why would they be? If society without fail treated boys and girls the same, they would still be different physically emotionally and in behaviours because of actual sex based differences

@Newgirls

I’m interested in why boys are not taken to dance classes in the same numbers as girls when they have so much supposed energy? Yet clearly boys can be incredible dancers? That is parental or societal decision? Even in a modern society we are still steering them in certain directions.

My ds did ballet for a few years.

He didn't mind it, but wasn't enthusiastic in the way my girls had been.

But in the lessons he was very different to the girls.
Teacher:
Let's flap our wings and flutter round the room pretend you're flying.
Girls: raise their arms gently, flap them and on tiptoes run gently round the room, all in the same direction (so effectively in a circle)
DS: Puts head down and arms straight out at the side. Makes zooming plane noises and runs round the room in the opposite direction to all of the others.
If they asked what animal they were, then the girls would be butterflies, he'd be a stag beetle.

Luckily for him teachers and parents alike thought this was funny. He was doing the instructions but in quite a different way.

He stopped when he got to about 6yo. I'd have quite liked him to carry on, and it was definitely his decision.

He loved tap (or "noisy dancing" as he called it) for a few more years, but now would say he prefers jazz, which he does in musical theatre.

I've 2 girls, 1 boy. There are differences between my girls, and similarities between my boy and each one of my girls (esp the eldest).
But there are things that are very stereotypical.

The girls are older, and ds had multiple illnesses as a baby and toddler and very little socialising outside his sisters until he was 3.5yo when he went to preschool-where his best friends were girls.

He liked the dolls' buggies. He occasionally did use them in the conventional way. I'm not sure his train set enjoyed a trip to the shops as much as the girls' dolls did, but he liked pushing it.
However his preferred use of a dolls' buggy was either to use it as a battering ram or turn it upside down, lie on his back and twirl the wheels.
The girls loved colouring and books. He didn't mind being read to, although he preferred a factual book. I can tell you far more than I need to know about WWII tanks for example. But any sort of craft/art? No way. In year 1 they sent him to do maths with year 2 during craft afternoon. He thought he'd had a treat. (mind you the girls wouldn't have minded the maths, but they would have been cross at missing the craft).
Football. Neither me or dh is into football. From an early age, before he'd had any interaction with other children, he was obsessed with it. He'd watch it, talk about it, want to kick a football around. He gets totally emotional about it. I remember going to the paralympics in London. We went in to watch one of the football matches. 2 teams, neither of which he'd known about before: Perhaps UAE or Iran or similar. Within 2 minutes he had decided which one he'd support and was on the floor in tears when the other one scored.

There other ways they're similar. They all like maths. They all enjoy drama. They all enjoy the technical side of putting on a show, they all enjoy the trampoline, and they all like cooking.

I think it's down to role models and socialisation of boys - from the very start. Little brains are so plastic and mouldable and we don't realise the drip, drip, drip that is put onto each sex, even when you try your hardest not to (as I do). Not to mention what happens when they get to school. My DS was definitely very "policed" by both boys and girls in terms of things it was OK to like/be.

Delusions of gender by Cordelia Fine is a good book (not specifically about children).

I think exercise and outdoors time is good for all children - some need more than others. My nieces for example, one enjoys stereotypical "girls" activities - crafts, indoors things etc and the other needs much more physical/outdoors time. It's also possible that an outdoorsy/boisterous girl is seen as needing to be moulded more into a "typical" one that enjoys quiet activities whereas an outdoorsy/boisterous type boy is seen as needing to have that side of him nourished and fulfilled.

I think girls are subtly encouraged to be more socially aware and "be good/meek/kind" etc. I've also seen "bad" behaviour by girls going more under the radar (quiet kicks/pinches when the teacher isn't looking) and boys "bad" behaviour being more overt.

I can’t believe some people are saying boys are let down by society.
They have advantages everywhere! We still live in a very sexist society!
I’m also wondering why parents of a boy and a girl feel like they have authority to come out with adamant facts out of a tiny sample.
Look at the statistics of crime - these undisciplined and indulged boys become rapists, abusers, criminals and murderers to a MUCH greater extent than women. They have all the advantages without having to put in any of the work and that doesn’t setup anyone for life.

One hot and one girl here

My view is that primary schools in particular are much better suited to majority of girls. The reward system, the hours of sitting, the arts and craft, the focus on neat writing etc.

Hence many girls appear better behaved.

One boy and one girl

@Pancakeorcrepe

I can’t believe some people are saying boys are let down by society. They have advantages everywhere! We still live in a very sexist society! I’m also wondering why parents of a boy and a girl feel like they have authority to come out with adamant facts out of a tiny sample. Look at the statistics of crime - these undisciplined and indulged boys become rapists, abusers, criminals and murderers to a MUCH greater extent than women. They have all the advantages without having to put in any of the work and that doesn’t setup anyone for life.

How do you know that rapists and murderers etc are indulged?!

Research suggests that many from broken homes.

There's a "for boys" dance class at my local dance school, they only take them from 5+ though. I might take DS in the Spring, he loves dancing.

(I would also take him to a mixed dance class, just the ones I think he'd enjoy/for his age range start at 3.30pm and we wouldn't get there on time. The "boy class" is early evening)

I helped out in a reception/y1 class for a decade. I noticed that quite often summer-birthday boys didn't seem developmentally ready for sitting quietly in one place and listening for more than short periods.Perhaps we expect too much of some of them. My daughter was an autumn birthday and was very ready for this kind of activity. She seemed much readier for school. It was as if her brain was just wired for it, through no merit of hers/ours, whereas some of the boys just weren't.

I felt sorry for some of those boys. They just needed to play.

In reception and KS1 my DS used to get into trouble for bad behaviour in the afternoons. This stopped almost completely after one perceptive teacher started sending him on a run around the School premises for 10 minutes half way through the afternoon. He loved this and it meant he could behave and concentrate during the afternoons. In my view many kids, & especially many boys, need more opportunity to be active and play up if this is not provided.

My middle dd is a ball of energy, needs little sleep and can struggle with her focus.

We’ve put a lot of time into channeling her energy into productivity, she attends lots of exercise based clubs but we also do a lot of work on activities that teach her to sit still and focus (chess being a great example). I feel that her male peers who display similar focus and excessive energy issues are primarily encouraged to get involved in sports to reduce their energy but they aren’t encouraged or provided activities that train them to focus, sit and concentrate to the completion of a task, therefore when in school they are struggling far, far more academically than my dd.