What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

I think a lot of the reason that girls are 'sneaky and bitchy and manipulative' as well is because they aren't allowed the opportunity to get their feelings out in the open as much.

See I don’t think girls are sneaky and manipulative or are told to keep quiet. I’ve never experienced this in real life at all. If anything, both boys and girls are encouraged to speak up when they are upset in my experience.

Are you sure people aren’t just making it up that girls are told to not speak up? To fit some feminist narrative?

I have one girl, and I won’t be telling her to never speak up. Same with my boys. There’s bad behaviour and there’s being able to speak up for themselves. Who even tells girls not to do that? Nobody.

A boy is upset about sharing a toy or something, there might be a bit of a tick, some shouting, even a bit of rough and tumble, but 'boys will be boys' right. A girl has the same feelings, we have to compromise, be kind, share our things, make friends. So the girls have these same feelings but are not allowed the same sort of outlet, so they find other ways, which is where the 'sneakiness' comes in.

Again, I don’t believe this at all. All kids don’t want to share at some point and they will kick up a fuss. I took my daughter to the park yesterday and another little girl didn’t want to share the slide with her which she made the point quite loud and clear. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Her mum told her to share which is just a normal thing to do. I doubt she would have stood there going how adorable if the girl was a boy.

Teachers assume boys are the problem all the time.... We try not to. We are (hopefully) aware of our unconscious bias and try constantly to challenge that. As teachers we see firsthand how children in Early Years are much more free to be themselves (boys in princess gowns, girls running around being dinosaurs etc) and how they start to grow apart as they get older because of societal pressure. It’s heartbreaking. I agree that sometimes teachers are part of the problem but I would hope for the most part we’re part of the solution. It would not be acceptable for a teacher to make a sexist comment like “boys will be boys” in the staffroom at my school, that would be immediately challenged.

Yes absolutely @formerbabe. My ds was told off by 2 teachers and they didn't actually bother to get his side of the story at all, just saw the "tears" from the poor innocent girl and decided he was at fault.

@DangerMouse17 what did the teacher do? Did your son get in trouble? Did the teacher just believed the girl without checking his story?

Ah sorry cross post.

Another vote for exercise. Have 3 brothers, and when younger if they didn't expel their excess energy it was disastrous. Boys can be more 'physical' than girls so they tend to play out stuff in a more physical way but this is a very big generalisation. Girls can be this way too. It's less about boy vs girl and more a self regulation issue if you ask me - kids need boundaries else they run riot trying to find their own. Desperately sad.

My parents had zero tolerance with poor behavior so we had boundaries and discipline. If you stepped out of line, boy did you know it. Parenting today is different, seems more permissive.. I have raised my daughter in a similar way to how I was raised (she's very willful lol)I've seen / heard too many things brushed under the carpet to not take this stance. I've had comments from mothers at school about how 'harsh/'draconian' they think I am....

I have two boys myself and I’m a primary school teacher. I do not assume boys are the problem all of the time.

I’ve been teaching for over ten years now and there’s more variation within the groups of boys and girls than there is between them. Why can’t we just treat them all as children?

@funinthesun19 Absolutely agreed. If kids aren’t allowed to be honest with their feelings they will become sneaky and repressed. Girls do damage to each other psychologically. Your post is absolutely spot on.

@Abraid2 ah yes the age divide in classes is another massive issue as it exacerbates any developmental differences in a class. We had a Polish friend who was astounded at how young our kids are when they are expected to sit still and behave.

@DangerMouse17

Yes absolutely *@formerbabe*. My ds was told off by 2 teachers and they didn't actually bother to get his side of the story at all, just saw the "tears" from the poor innocent girl and decided he was at fault.

That's a really shitty reaction from the school.

I had a similar situation last week. Checked with the boy, he admitted he hit her,but after she annoyed him,made fun of him and stamped on his foot.

He missed some play in which we had a one to one time and talked about how to deal with it next time,what he could've done,hitting back etc. Also a promise that he won't have to sit next to the girl anymore as it has happened quite often.

The girl also missed play, had a serious chat about downplaying her actions (hers were all an accident apparently and "he said it first") and about her own behaviour.

I haven’t read the full thread but I definitely will go back and do so.

I have two boys, aged 6 and 3 and they are so boisterous.

My 6 year old has never been in trouble at school, but when he’s home with his brother they are like a whirlwind of craziness.

The noise in the house can be deafening at times.

My friend has two daughters, near enough the same as mine (slightly smaller age gap) and there is a marked difference in their home life compared to ours.

Her girls will sit quietly and nicely chat together, playing with dolls or colouring in etc and you barely hear a peep out of them.

If I tried to get my boys to sit at a table with pens and paper they’d last a few minutes before getting bored and running off to find something far more active, loud and exciting to do.

Do I think there is something fundamentally different between girls and boys and their behaviours? Absolutely and I’m not convinced that its as simple as being down due to nurture and culture.

It’s a topic I find fascinating.

" “at least boys have a fist fight and get it all over with. Girls hold onto things forever” is a comment I’ve heard often."

Yes, I remember this at school. Problem is they quite often had a fist fight AND had an ongoing feud. You see these feuds between men (as well as between women and between men and women) at work quite a lot. It's rubbish that boys and men don't bear grudges.

"(hers were all an accident apparently"

Maybe they were. My brother gave me a black eye after I accidentally stood on his foot. Is that OK because according to him I started it?
I'm surprised that missing some play time is the only punishment for violence!

[quote Bromley4ever]@Abraid2 ah yes the age divide in classes is another massive issue as it exacerbates any developmental differences in a class. We had a Polish friend who was astounded at how young our kids are when they are expected to sit still and behave.[/quote]
Poor things.

@Gwenhwyfar it's not. It all depends on the severity of the incident and circumstances.

But I am curious, what other consequences would you give?

ComeOn - I don't work with children so I don't know what the punishments are and what you're allowed to give. I can only speak as a citizen who has to live in a society with a child who learnt that slapping only gets a punishment of missing some playtime. It really doesn't give the message that violence is not allowed, does it?

@Gwenhwyfar

" “at least boys have a fist fight and get it all over with. Girls hold onto things forever” is a comment I’ve heard often."

Yes, I remember this at school. Problem is they quite often had a fist fight AND had an ongoing feud. You see these feuds between men (as well as between women and between men and women) at work quite a lot. It's rubbish that boys and men don't bear grudges.

Yes and no one is dealing with it or trying to solve it because the boys had a fight and it's all "done and dusted." So irresponsible.

Boys aren't all that bad; they tend to be more boisterous and little boys' parties are often chaotic but as they all get older, it seems pretty even.

It's a very interesting discussion. I work with under 2s in a nursery and am shocked at how early the gender stereotyping starts in our society. I have had a couple of tricky conversations with dads who don't want their boys to play with dolls, and with mums who get upset that their daughters clothes have got dirty in the garden.

My observation is that in these very young children there are a wide range of personality types regardless of sex. There are quiet boys and boisterous girls and vice versa. There are lively boys who also love singing and painting and quiet girls who love the ride on cars and mud kitchen. My practice is based on the old one of 'The Unique Child'. Children are encouraged to explore all the toys and activities but allowed to choose freely. They are all expected to treat each other kindly and not to throw toys, climb on the furniture, destroy the books etc.

@Gwenhwyfar

ComeOn - I don't work with children so I don't know what the punishments are and what you're allowed to give. I can only speak as a citizen who has to live in a society with a child who learnt that slapping only gets a punishment of missing some playtime. It really doesn't give the message that violence is not allowed, does it?

There are other things we can do. Like i said it depends.

Missing play for the whole day,or several days, spending time with SLT, phonecalls to parents, eating lunch with a grownup instead of peers, being sent to another class, even day exclusions if severe enough,If arguments are over an object or activity,have it removed etc.

There are various things that we can do, probably many others depending on the school and behaviour policy.

In this instance play is what I went with. And yes she did call him name and stamped on his foot on purpose. It all came out in the end.

No idea if i was right or wrong, but I always try my best to be fair ,instil boundaries and model/teach good behaviours/choices and coping mechanisms.

My observation from personal and professional experience is that if we take the general then boys are more boisterous and this is encouraged, in fact quiet Pacific boys are more likely to be regarded as not active enough. A young child who is really boisterous is more likely to unintentionally cause accidents tothemselves and others and when “wound up” they are less likely to isten to parental instructions to calm down etc. Behaviour regarded as “normal” or even amusing in young children is less likely to be tolerated as they get older and the child is increasingly regarded as a nuisance and disruptive. Unfortunately many parents don’t realise you have to start as you intend to go on and time and effort spent moderating behaviour pays off later with more socialised behaviour and better relationships. Girls have a head start being more attuned to social expectations.
Society’s expectations play a large part. Chinese schoolchildren are less disruptive for instance but a friend was driven to distraction by the behaviour of Korean primary aged boys.
Our attitude towards teachers also affects our children’s behaviour in school. Where teachers are respected there is less poor behaviour from their students.

I think this thread demonstrates very well why boys are like they are. Parents who are convinced boys are like dogs, that they're more boisterous and noisy than girls, that their brains are wired differently. Boys don't have any more of a hope of breaking out of gender stereotypes than girls do because families, nursery. schools, social media all reinforce it day in day out

This is an experiment the bbc did before they became overrun with wokeness. It shows how people treat the same baby completely differently depending on if they believe it to be male or female.

And teachers don't display sexist attitudes towards children are better respected.

I could give a list if examples of the ingrained sexist bias in favour of girl at my sons primary school, not least the final year 6 play where every lead part was given to girls. Just imagine if that had been the other way round?