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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What are we doing wrong with our boys?

403 replies

OhNoItsMonday · 03/10/2020 07:03

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

OP posts:
ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble · 04/10/2020 22:48

Search up caveman and cavewoman on google and go to images. There's a stark difference in the results, especially as you keep scrolling down. This is just to the first results for both. What a surprise!

StellaGib · 04/10/2020 22:54

@TrixiePants

I have a girl and boy 1 year apart.. so not exactly a controlled identical twins experiment but when the boy goes crazy he is more aggressive, hurtful/rude in words, worse impulse control and destructive (breaks things etc) than the girl (who can sit still longer). Without meaning to male bash he is also lazier and more immature than his younger sister. But he is also more creative, sensitive and has a very loving side to him, and can totally engage in imaginative girly games with his sister. His sister however cant keep up with his ball skills and coordination so yes, he would have better potential at football rugby and tennis. He definitely eats more, yet doesnt put on any weight and is more boisterous and energetic than her. He doesnt care for his sisters stuffed toys and unicorn fascination and his sister became a fashionista/prima donna in her own right early on despite me dressing her in hand me down boys outfits all through baby and toddlerhood.

A lot of gender stereotypes are true without me enforcing any bias.

Are you sure you didn't have any bias? That would seem very unlikely given the society we live in. Just the language you use about them is very gendered - you mention him being creative, sensitive and having a loving side as if that is in contrast to his maleness. He can play "girly games", she is a "prima donna". Comes across that you have very firm ideas about what girls and boys are supposed to be like.
DrCoconut · 04/10/2020 23:03

I tend to agree with fatted, there is a socially inbuilt preference for girls, and boys are much more likely to be criticised, punished and shamed for their behaviour which then feeds the stereotype that boys are naughty. Example if a girl knocks a cup over at school dinner time she will likely be told not to worry, accidents happen etc whereas a boy would be scolded for clumsiness and carelessness. Eventually they will act up because they perceive themselves as just naughty boys while the girls go on to get stars and merits because they have been built up to that and told how nice, good, clever etc they are.

IdkickJilliansass · 04/10/2020 23:06

I’ve got both and they are all brilliant, I don’t expect him to be tough or expect more from the girls, I just want them to be themselves, happy and kind to those who deserve it.

Lotsofwishes · 04/10/2020 23:16

In my class there are 2/3 boys and 1/3 girls. The girls are worse than the boys 🙈

Goosefoot · 04/10/2020 23:17

Boys and girls are developmentally different. There are significantly differences for example in reading readiness in young kids, and certain behaviours, and there is no real evidence that this is mainly due to differences in how people treat them. The fact that boys read later on average is unlikely to be due to anything like that. But thousands of teachers will say that on average, young boys have a harder time staying still for long periods, to stay quiet, they are a little less mature and have less self-control.

Especially where we have children being asked to do schoolwork at early ages, to sit in desks for long periods, you are more likely to get more boys negatively affected by pushing back the age, and it has knock on effects for their whole school career in many cases, even after they are catch up developmentally, they have been labeled and they have become used to being frustrated, getting poor reports, not paying attention, getting in trouble, and so on.

A lot could be improved by more reasonable expectations of young primary school aged kids.

Pickagoddamnname · 04/10/2020 23:21

My eldests year was 75% boys but the issues were all with the behaviour and disruption caused by the girls. My youngest is 50/50 and I can’t say there’s a difference in behaviour and disruption, it’s a good class.
I do think there’s a lot of society that expects boys to be boisterous etc.

Redcups64 · 04/10/2020 23:24

Boys are allowed to get away with naughty behaviour so when they start school with rules and expectations they can’t handle it, hence the complaints.

If parents didint give special treatment to boys it wouldn’t happen

formerbabe · 04/10/2020 23:28

@Redcups64

Boys are allowed to get away with naughty behaviour so when they start school with rules and expectations they can’t handle it, hence the complaints.

If parents didint give special treatment to boys it wouldn’t happen

Absolute nonsense.
nevernotstruggling · 04/10/2020 23:37

Yanbu, something isn't going right. In my DD's primary school the boys are just out hand. It is not so much violence, but an inability to self-regulate behaviour and emotion.

Yes to this. Dd1 ignores them but dd2 really struggles with this behaviour.

Dd2 has quit a few activities because there is no escape from the badly behaved little boys there either.

MsEllany · 04/10/2020 23:43

This is something I only see on Mumsnet tbh.

I have three boys. Aside from one incident with a boy in my (then) Y1 child, we’ve had no issues whatsoever. There was a child excluded a few years ago, but that was very outside the norm as he was a looked after child with additional issues.

I don’t know if this is just the school we’re at (large inner city primary in a deprived area btw) or if it’s more to do with the parents, but I really don’t see what you’re seeing.

StellaGib · 04/10/2020 23:53

@Goosefoot

Boys and girls are developmentally different. There are significantly differences for example in reading readiness in young kids, and certain behaviours, and there is no real evidence that this is mainly due to differences in how people treat them. The fact that boys read later on average is unlikely to be due to anything like that. But thousands of teachers will say that on average, young boys have a harder time staying still for long periods, to stay quiet, they are a little less mature and have less self-control.

Especially where we have children being asked to do schoolwork at early ages, to sit in desks for long periods, you are more likely to get more boys negatively affected by pushing back the age, and it has knock on effects for their whole school career in many cases, even after they are catch up developmentally, they have been labeled and they have become used to being frustrated, getting poor reports, not paying attention, getting in trouble, and so on.

A lot could be improved by more reasonable expectations of young primary school aged kids.

Parents (all adults) treat girl babies and boy babies differently from birth - girls are spoken to more, read and sung to, encouraged to sit still, concentrate on activities, develop fine motor skills. Boys are offered "boy toys" from birth, taken out to run around, encouraged to kick a ball. The outcome is that 4 year old girls are better prepared for school. Not because girls have evolved to be good at sitting still or vaginas are better for reading, but because they have had longer to work on those skills.
Chuggington2 · 04/10/2020 23:58

Have a read of the Dan Bidulph book raising boys.

Chuggington2 · 05/10/2020 00:02

Oh and there’s all the prejudices and fucking outdated opinions that are coming out on this thread.....FFS @Redcups64

Notyoungbutscrappyandhungry · 05/10/2020 00:10

@Goosefoot

Boys and girls are developmentally different. There are significantly differences for example in reading readiness in young kids, and certain behaviours, and there is no real evidence that this is mainly due to differences in how people treat them. The fact that boys read later on average is unlikely to be due to anything like that. But thousands of teachers will say that on average, young boys have a harder time staying still for long periods, to stay quiet, they are a little less mature and have less self-control.

Especially where we have children being asked to do schoolwork at early ages, to sit in desks for long periods, you are more likely to get more boys negatively affected by pushing back the age, and it has knock on effects for their whole school career in many cases, even after they are catch up developmentally, they have been labeled and they have become used to being frustrated, getting poor reports, not paying attention, getting in trouble, and so on.

A lot could be improved by more reasonable expectations of young primary school aged kids.

This
Chuggington2 · 05/10/2020 00:10

Actually @Hardbackwriter that is completely and utterly untrue, you actually couldn’t be more wrong the opposite to what you’ve posted is actually true. Have never actually said this on here but you really need to go educate yourself on this issue before spouting off on something you have clearly done no research or reading on.

Hormones and physiologically differences play a massive massive part in behaviour and development from a very young age.

Chuggington2 · 05/10/2020 00:12

Bang on @Goosefoot

Emeraldshamrock · 05/10/2020 00:25

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble I understand I see your meaning. Smile
It is a mans world then as it is now. When will they realise women are far more interesting. Wink

Goosefoot · 05/10/2020 03:58

Parents (all adults) treat girl babies and boy babies differently from birth - girls are spoken to more, read and sung to, encouraged to sit still, concentrate on activities, develop fine motor skills. Boys are offered "boy toys" from birth, taken out to run around, encouraged to kick a ball. The outcome is that 4 year old girls are better prepared for school. Not because girls have evolved to be good at sitting still or vaginas are better for reading, but because they have had longer to work on those skills.

It might shock you to know this, but no one reads with a vagina. The question is developmental differences, which are pretty significant, IIRC girls on average are about three ears ahead of boys in reading readiness in the early years that we send them to school. It evens out by around age 10 or so, but up until then the trajectory is just a little different.

That's not a bad thing, but it does mean that when we have pushed school starting age down to 4, unlike the 6 or 7 that was more traditional, and asked those young kids to do a lot more seat work and less activity it affects the students with slower development more. Which includes some girls but more boys.

All of the things that you mention are very much chicken and egg scenarios. Do parents read less to little boys because they are less likely to sit at that age, or do they sit less because they are read to less often?

Developmental differences become a factor later on too, when girls hit puberty a few years before the boys do, which also impacts cognitive function. I'm not sure why some are so resistant to even the possibility that development is also affected by sex earlier on, there is no reason to imagine that it's unlikely.

WellThisWentWell · 05/10/2020 06:41

It is funny (really isin’t) if the few comments say anything nice about girls, other commenters jump in to say ”are you sure you’re not bias”? etc.

Girls get trashed and called names.
Almost all comments support/ make up excuseses for boys and people clap their hands and say yes, let’s be open minded!

You really don’t see your own behavior and bias?
I just feel so sad for the girls. Wish people would have half of the faith and support they have for boys on girls too...

WellThisWentWell · 05/10/2020 06:44

Redcups64

Boys are allowed to get away with naughty behaviour so when they start school with rules and expectations they can’t handle it, hence the complaints.

If parents didint give special treatment to boys it wouldn’t happen^**

Yep. This!

Chuggington2 · 05/10/2020 08:23

@WellThisWentWell just interested to know how much research you’ve done into childcare development and how that impacts on learning and behaviour of both boys and girls and would be really interested to read some properly thought out points from you?

What’s your evidence that all boys are allowed to get away with naughty behaviour. Let’s have some properly thought out any analysis not just anecdotal points of view.

OhNoItsMonday · 05/10/2020 08:31

Boys are allowed to get away with naughty behaviour so when they start school with rules and expectations they can’t handle it, hence the complaints.

If parents didint give special treatment to boys it wouldn’t happen

Yep. This

@WellThisWentWell. I'm curious as to whether you think this is the case when parents have a mix of boys and girls. Do you think parents (either consciously or unconsciously) discipline their girls more harshly than their boys? I would hope I'm pretty consistent in my approach to my DC. We have fairly clear rules on what behaviour is allowed and not allowed in this house. I'd hope that wouldn't change if I had girls as well as boys.

OP posts:
Hardbackwriter · 05/10/2020 08:52

@Chuggington2

Actually *@Hardbackwriter* that is completely and utterly untrue, you actually couldn’t be more wrong the opposite to what you’ve posted is actually true. Have never actually said this on here but you really need to go educate yourself on this issue before spouting off on something you have clearly done no research or reading on.

Hormones and physiologically differences play a massive massive part in behaviour and development from a very young age.

This is a bit of a bizarre personal attack. No, I'm not a researcher in child development or human biology, though I have read plenty of (popular) works on the topic and there is not, as far as I know, clear and unambiguous evidence that physical difference leads to behaviour differences in young children - happy for you to link me to the evidence for this, though, rather than just attack me personally?

Incidentally I'm not (and have never claimed to be) an expert in those topics but I do have a PhD in history, specialising in the history of youth (and used to teach on this topic), so have researched and read widely on conceptions and attitudes to childhood both across history and across modern societies and from that I do know that many of the things being presented as universal attributes of boys and girls in this thread are actually culturally specific, which strongly suggests that they are not wholly innate. But again, happy to hear the evidence of your own research in the field - since you've said I know nothing I assume your own credentials are impeccable...

formerbabe · 05/10/2020 08:59

@WellThisWentWell

Redcups64

Boys are allowed to get away with naughty behaviour so when they start school with rules and expectations they can’t handle it, hence the complaints.

If parents didint give special treatment to boys it wouldn’t happen^**

Yep. This!

What are you defining as "naughty behaviour"? Running round, climbing, not sitting down quietly? These aren't naughty behaviours in pre school children...they're entirely normal. Are you suggesting pre school boys should be chastised for not having a long concentration span or wanting to run round?
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