What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

Funny how explanations and excuses for male behaviour always come back to the "animal kingdom". One would hope we were slightly more evolved.

We're an intelligent species, yes, but we're still just animals.

Male and females have physical differences obviously and also hormonal differences...do you not think these have any influence on our behaviour?

I don't think anyone is denying that there are significant physical and hormonal differences between adult men and women (though how much they actually influence behaviour isn't clear because it's impossible to separate out social influence). But we're talking about young children for the most part in this thread, where the differences are far less pronounced.

Well its the age old nature v nurture debate. It's quite interesting looking online at some of the research surrounding it. I guess there's a degree of both nature and nurture but the degrees of which is debatable.

@FelicisNox

Boys do seem more naturally energetic and loud?

There's nothing wrong as such but as another person said, there IS a difference in behaviour between the sexes.

I've no idea what confirmation bias is.

Mine can be loud, but thats because he has a hearing impairment, when he realises he is being loud he lowers his volume.

He isn’t energetic, he likes being out and about, physical exercise etc. But he generally spends a lot of time on quiet calm play, he’d colour all day if you let him, very little running around etc at home. At the park he tends to go for things like the swing, rather than climbing or high energy things.

@formerbabe

How can you tell they are naturally more energetic and loud rather than they have been raised that way?

I'm a pretty lazy indoorsy type person...My ds was very high energy..literally climbing the walls if we didn't go out every day to run. I'd have loved him to sit quietly and play. I used to give him colouring books and crafts...zero interest. I then had my dd, she obviously came on our daily park trips yet never had the same energy levels. I know I'm just one person..but every mother of boys I've known feels the same. If my ds has a friend over they run round the house like absolute lunatics. If my dd has a friend over, they invariably play in a much quieter way.

If we look at the animal kingdom, there are differences between the male and females of a species. Why would humans be any different? Socialization clearly has some part to play, but I believe nature is a more overwhelming factor.

What physical differences are there in tiny children that would cause a difference in energy levels

I'm a mother of both and have noticed no correlation between genitals and energy levels. My laziest child has a penis.

At my children's school there have been a few disruptive boys who have displayed unacceptable behaviour, usually physical. Some of it gets shrugged off as boys will be boys and some of it is met with strong disapline. Genarally those boys have matured through primary school and improved. I do believe running around at break and play is really important. Boys being fidgety is often seen as naughty, which it isn't.
There have been a lot more problems with girls bullying other girls and causing misery. But because it is often subtle, it goes unnoticed. These same girls who are often alpha females and pick and choose who's in the group or who is left out and picked on are often very well behaved in class. They may be star pupils and liked by the teachers. Over the years I'm not seeing these girls being disaplined and they are getting worse.

Boys being fidgety is often seen as naughty, which it isn't.
There have been a lot more problems with girls bullying other girls and causing misery. But because it is often subtle, it goes unnoticed. These same girls who are often alpha females and pick and choose who's in the group or who is left out and picked on are often very well behaved in class. They may be star pupils and liked by the teachers. Over the years I'm not seeing these girls being disaplined and they are getting worse.

Absolutely and its so unfair. My ds and his friend had a physical fight in primary school and obviously I do not condone any violence...and my ds knew that...he got into a lot of trouble with the school over that as did the other boy. I felt that they were then pigeonholed based on that one incident. Meanwhile the perfect, angelic looking girl in my dds class who told my dd she hated her and was only ever pretending to be her friend was lauded as a perfect pupil...personally I think what she said was no better than punching someone.

@formerbabe

Well its the age old nature v nurture debate. It's quite interesting looking online at some of the research surrounding it. I guess there's a degree of both nature and nurture but the degrees of which is debatable.

Academic research is not debating this any more.

Just anecdotally as a Reception class teacher, boys misbehaviour tends to be more obvious, physical, noisy etc. On the whole girls are more verbally mean, sly and defiant in their "misbehaviour" so it might not seem as disruptive to a group. The child who requires the most redirecting, correcting, and general help in behaving in my class is a girl and there is a big difference between her and the next most disruptive child. She has a problematic family life which has clearly impacted her behaviour much more than being a boy or a girl

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

Funny how explanations and excuses for male behaviour always come back to the "animal kingdom". One would hope we were slightly more evolved.

We haven't evolved so much that we're no longer animals, no.

Can't generalise my two boys were well behaved at school and when ds was 5 and we had a party with about 10 boys and 3 girls the only badly behaved one was the girl.
But that doesn't make me think girls are all naughty .
Also when they get to teenagers the girls seem harsher and more mean to each other than the boys
But again so much depends in the child be a boy or girl and their personality

I'm not sure. I have 2 boys. My eldest, 8 is mr sensible and good as gold at school..ad at home, but at home he's full of energy and loud. My youngest is asd and 6, also very good at school but such hard work at home. Never shuts up! My eldest is just incredibly well behaved and hates getting in trouble. My youngest is obviously scared so holds on to his frustration til he gets home to me. My mum had girls and says how different we were to my boys. She absolutely worships her grandsons but says they are so different to girls. Though it definitely depends on the girls. I know a little tomboy girl and she's just brilliant, full of energy and carefree. My eldest at least knows there's a time and a place.

I think there have been studies, I've certainly read somewhere, that boys and girls are pretty much the same until puberty. Our more gendered society has lead to the problems we see with boys being made fun of by others if they want to read or do crafts and not join in with football or similar. Likewise for girls. My dd learned to ride a bike before my Ds, much better coordination, she prefered toy cars, lego etc but also loved drawing and crafts. Ds loved his cuddly toys, cooking, and role playing. They played together all the time. All children have huge amounts of energy that needs to be used positively, so plenty of outside play is vital for both boys and girls to thrive. We expect children to sit still at school from a very young age which goes against their natural inclination. It's actually painful for children to do that. No wonder some children appear to misbehave, we are expecting too much.

I havent RTFT yet but as a parent of a 2.5 year old boy and now a girl too, I am super conscious of not letting him get away with poor behaviour. He is naturally v boisterous, loves to climb and has high energy (more so than other toddlers his age, of both sexes). However, he doesn't really like ball games, loves swimming / water, like baking and his play kitchen is probably his favourite toy.

He is also, has 2 mums so no "father", sees his Grandad v regularly though so does have a male role model.

Dear OP,

Another poster recommend raising boys by Steve biddulp - its hugely insightful and accounts for some of yours obs. This and the whole brain child are pretty exceptional reads.

I'll tell you what we are doing wrong with our boys. We are constantly putting them down, constantly bashing them all the time (there are plenty of threads on MN to prove this). Its always the same oh boys cant do this or boys are so immature, men are such idiots, your husband is such an asshole. Women go on about how men treat them like crap but what about the other way round? Lots of women treat men like crap. I'm a mum of a 17 yo son who is asd and ive taught him from day one to treat people as he would wanted to be treated himself and not let anyone knock him down because he's a man. The same goes for my 16 yo daughter.
Lets stop the man bashing!

There is an obvious difference between Male and Female animals in the wild why wouldn't there be with humans.
Cave people knew no different yet the men hunted more than the women the men fought more than women.
Hormone and brain activity prove there are differences.
Like a pp my DS has far more energy than DD it might be there personalities it may be genetic. 🤷‍♀️

Boys learn /develop differently to girls
But
Are expected to behave /be school learning ready before they are able .
They are not ready to sit at desks. Write. Colour in the lines etc
But school does not allow for this
As for boys will be boys !!
Yes they will
Because they are !!

Cave people knew no different yet the men hunted more than the women the men fought more than women.

How do you know?

• This is the first paper that compares the bones of prehistoric women to those of living women, and it has allowed us to identify a hidden history of consistent and rigorous manual labor among women across thousands of years of farming,” says study coauthor Alison Macintosh of the University of Cambridge. The study, published today in Science Advancess ,^ suggests that women were a driving force behind the development of agriculture during its earliest 6,000 years in Central Europe. “We often think about men as the ‘providers,’ but this paper really highlights women's extensive contribution to provisioning,”

But so far, most of these skeletal studies only assessed men’s bones and looked for signs of load-bearing activities. This is largely because male skeletons are simply more common in ancient cemeteries, says the University of Pisa’s Damiano Marchi, and because the ways in which male bones respond to activity are more robust and better understood.
The few studies that looked at women compared female bones to male bones, which muddied a substantial portion of the picture.*

Because portrayal of women has never been done under bias (from male archeologists,scientists etc) . Hell if you think about it women seem almost non existent in those times. But somehow the species kept going,evolving, working,farming etc. Must've been all those hunting men.

I have a girl and boy 1 year apart.. so not exactly a controlled identical twins experiment but when the boy goes crazy he is more aggressive, hurtful/rude in words, worse impulse control and destructive (breaks things etc) than the girl (who can sit still longer). Without meaning to male bash he is also lazier and more immature than his younger sister. But he is also more creative, sensitive and has a very loving side to him, and can totally engage in imaginative girly games with his sister. His sister however cant keep up with his ball skills and coordination so yes, he would have better potential at football rugby and tennis. He definitely eats more, yet doesnt put on any weight and is more boisterous and energetic than her. He doesnt care for his sisters stuffed toys and unicorn fascination and his sister became a fashionista/prima donna in her own right early on despite me dressing her in hand me down boys outfits all through baby and toddlerhood.

A lot of gender stereotypes are true without me enforcing any bias.

Hell if you think about it women seem almost non existent in those times. But somehow the species kept going,evolving, working,farming etc. Must've been all those hunting men
I doubt they seemed non existent during those times I'm sure women were a vital part of the families survival as they are today, I'd go as far as saying women are/were the back bone of a family then and now with their superior organisational skills.

@nannykatherine

Boys learn /develop differently to girls But Are expected to behave /be school learning ready before they are able . They are not ready to sit at desks. Write. Colour in the lines etc But school does not allow for this As for boys will be boys !! Yes they will Because they are !!

This is spot on and much more simply put/eloquent than my waffle!!

I think girls have their wings clipped early. I have been on woodland walks with parents of both sexes. All young children wanted to climb a tree that had fallen so was at a 45 degree angle. The parents of the boys encouraged the boys to climb whereas the parents of the girls all said "no! Stop! Come back! Too dangerous!" Etc. Over time, this inevitably ends up with quiet girls who sit still because they lack confidence and experience in physical tasks and boys who need to run and climb because they've been pushed to do so and haven't been told "no".

@Emeraldshamrock

Hell if you think about it women seem almost non existent in those times. But somehow the species kept going,evolving, working,farming etc. Must've been all those hunting men I doubt they seemed non existent during those times I'm sure women were a vital part of the families survival as they are today, I'd go as far as saying women are/were the back bone of a family then and now with their superior organisational skills.

I meant going by the portrayals ,science, studies etc. now,women seem non existent. Because it's all about the men. Not just that but it's assumed (A LOT) that the men did the hunting,they made the tools,the made all the famous paintings etc. Where the hell were the women? The studies? What were they doing? The representations and life models? The drawings?

It's not proven,it's an assumption.