To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

I wouldn’t do it in a million years. You could watch the kids for him while he does it. He’s being really disrespectful by asking you to do the worst job, essentially bc he doesn’t feel like doing it. I appreciate that it would help your SIL but it’s OK to have boundaries for yourself. Telling someone you’d help if there’s anything they need is NOT the same as signing a contract in blood that you will perform any task they ask of you forevermore.

My mother suffered severe depression throughout my childhood. I remember her sisters coming over one day and sitting around offering to help and one of them asking my sister if things were OK. They weren't and telling her to pick herself up and do her own cleaning and telling her children that they needed to help their Mum didn't help. She spent years on and off different medication, putting on a front to counsellors, occasionally being brave enough to reveal the true depth of her darkness but never finding a solution. She has live a half life and her children have lived in the shadow of her illness. She would have been physically and mentally incapable of allowing someone else into her house to clean it for her, she would have felt even more incapable and she would have felt judged even if she was not being judged. I alternatively see the role my father played in it from a million different angles. He was trapped in a life that he didnt want with a wife he couldn't fix. He knew he wouldn't be allowed to take us with him so he stayed. He couldn't understand that she hated mess, dirt, insecurity, but she couldn't find the head space to face her demons which were hiding under the washing and behind the piles of things that needed sorting. She never managed to get herself into work for any meaningful length of time though she tried again and again. I don't know what support would have helped and I don't know what would help your sister in law but don't expect a series of counselling or medication to totally transform her life.

If your brother needs help, go round there and do it along side him. As you go, help him set up routines that will make things better. Get your SIL involved if you can. Maybe also work out a way that he can also help you in return. Don't make it a male female role split and maybe even get your DH involved too. Get your brother to help with your Dad and also see if her parents can help in a different way. Maybe even suggest that they have your kids once in a while. Maybe suggest that one Saturday the kids stay home from grandparents and all clean and tidy the house together so they can learn not to just leave their stuff around.

Absolutely don't end up doing your cleaning, your Dad's cleaning and theirs as well but don't say no either.

YANBU. A group effort required. You organise and delegate cleaning tasks to your brother and his kids. Take cleaning stuff round if required. Do some cleaning yourself. Even try to make it fun for the kids!

The kids need to learn that dropping sweet wrappers on the floor have consequences. Making a mess has consequences. i.e. make a mess and they need to clean up afterwards.

Why offer to help if you are not prepared to do do ?
YABU

You look after the kids and he cleans his own house!!

You said 'let me know if I can do anything'
You meant
'I'll look after the kids'

Those are not the same. He has asked for the thing he needs help with, because you told him too. Just be honest and say your offer of help was conditional.

The most relevant factor I think is that the OP cleans for their father and the brother never contributes. That heavily implies that he sees cleaning as women’s work and he’s not going to do it. For that reason, I think the OP should absolutely stick to her guns.

Also I question all the minimising language - ‘Chuck the Hoover round’, ‘throw in a wash’, ‘quick blitz’. If the house is an absolute state it’s far more likely to involve laborious scrubbing and sorting. Cleaning can be heavy, tedious work - that’s why this bloke doesn’t want to do it! If all the house needed was a couple of dishes washing and a skip about with a Hoover then I don’t think he’d be asking. OP has her own house plus her dad’s - it’s not reasonable for her brother to expect her to clean three houses when he won’t clean one on his child-free night.

Yes, I completely understand that depression is extremely debilitating and exhausting for both people in that situation. He’s still not being reasonable, given the situation with his dad’s house and the grandparental overnight every week.

@Jimdandy

I think yabu to offer help and then when they ask for it refuse!

I know exactly what you mean about all the free time etc, but when you’re in the grips of depression and you struggle to lift your ass out of bed, you let the house get messy then trying to clean it overwhelms you and you can’t face making a start, then it just spirals out of control.

I would suggest, as a complete one off, that you go around on their child free night and all 3 of you get the house square with you dishing out the orders, then tell them ways to keep on top of it
And make it clear it’s a one time help to set them back to factory settings.

My husband and I (we both work full time with the commute and drops off I’m out from 7.30-5.30, he’s 8.30 to 7.20) we set the timer for 15 mins each night and just do a quick swizz around and that’s all You need to keep on top of the tidying etc

Nobody’s saying the SIL has to do it. OP’s brother has plenty of time and she didn’t mention anything about his legs being broken. It is just so terribly sexist. The brother is aware that OP cleans for their father and not only doesn’t help but thinks it’s ok for her to clean for him too. Would be ask the same favor of a male friend who gave a generic offer of help?

@Whataroyalannoyance

You said 'let me know if I can do anything' You meant 'I'll look after the kids'

Those are not the same. He has asked for the thing he needs help with, because you told him too. Just be honest and say your offer of help was conditional.

I’m honestly confused. Why can’t the OP look after the children while he cleans his own shit up. That was her offer and the offer of caring for the children is still allowing her brother to get necessary jobs done.

You didn't specify what your offer of help actually meant to you brother. You're assuming he can read your mind and know you didn't actually mean any help, it just meant helping with the kids really. You'll just have to tell him that he's got the wrong end of the stick if you aren't willing to help in the way he's asked.

People saying 'don't offer to help' are being ridiculous.

My husband died, lots of people offered to help, I didn't send them round a cleaning rota! They offered the type of things they could actually do- so making an extra meal, giving me a lift somewhere, just phoning for support.

'Let me know if I can help' is a social code. The OP's brother can read the social code, he knows it's cheeky, but he hates cleaning so gave it a whirl. I hate how women especially would feel guilty about this. If the OP had been male, then there no way on earth he would have texted his brother who said 'let me know if you need a hand' with a request to come over and clean!

In fact re-reading the OP, she doesn’t just clean for their father - she cleans, cooks and shops for him. The brother does NOTHING for their father. This pre-dates his wife’s depression.

When the OP was in hospital - again, prior to the sil’s depression, her brother did nothing to help and OP’s husband cleaned his own house and looked after his own children whilst his wife was ill and incapacitated.

When you read all of that, I’m astonished that anyone could argue the OP is unreasonable here.

Maybe you should have told them that you only wanted to help with things you deemed worthy.

Cut your brother some slack fgs. You clearly don't like him and think he is lazy but having a partner with depression can be very debilitating, particularly with a couple of kids in the mix too.

Do it for the kids, when was the last time their rooms were cleaned, beds changed. Cleaning the house would be good for them. Your sister in law may feel like she can do it if someone else starts it and gives her some encouragement.

YABU to offer help if you dont mean it. That's a shitty thing to do.

If you were his brother I doubt he would have asked you to go round to do the cleaning. You have a vagina, so it is expected you are happy to clean.

I’d probably do the come over and clean with him and dc, since I offered (he’s a lazy sod for asking- cleaning is not women’s work) He does toilets. They hang out and fold washing and put things away. Then I’d throw some comment away like keep up with training the kids and when sil is better you can give me a hand cleaning dads sometime.

I wouldn't do it.

However, I wouldn't offer in the first place.

@CaptainBrickbeard

In fact re-reading the OP, she doesn’t just clean for their father - she cleans, cooks and shops for him. The brother does NOTHING for their father. This pre-dates his wife’s depression.

When the OP was in hospital - again, prior to the sil’s depression, her brother did nothing to help and OP’s husband cleaned his own house and looked after his own children whilst his wife was ill and incapacitated.

When you read all of that, I’m astonished that anyone could argue the OP is unreasonable here.

Yes she does things for the father and brother doesn’t, I hadn’t missed that myself.

She is not unreasonable for not cleaning the brothers house, she is being unreasonable for offering to do “anything to help” but then refusing to help when what she is asked to help with is not to her taste.

She should just be honest and not offer help.

@cuddlymunchkin

"Let me know if I can help"

"Yes, help with cleaning would be really appreciated "

"I don't want to help like that"

"Oh."

This exactly.

I find your posts judgy & lacking in sympathy OP.

You asked how you could help. He said. You don't have to go a daily deep clean, once or twice in the main areas would be useful to them.

I would do it. I've just had a bereavement and a family friend has been here everyday cooking and cleaning while I sort all the stuff, admin, talking to various organisations and funeral planning. She could have offered to watch my kids while I cooked and cleaned, but by doing the heavy lifting she's made a difficult time so much easier.

Oh dear.
You asked if you could help. He accepted your offer. He's obviously struggling. Then you said no: you weren't willing to do what he asked even though it is something you are able to do and have done for others.
Your relationship won't recover if you don't make amends : it takes a lot to ask in these circumstances.

In my experience of helping someone who’s house is a tip and who’s kids and partner don’t pitch in ever, “because it’s women’s work/mum’s job” you cleaning the house top to bottom won’t help anyway. The house will be clean and tidy but it won’t last as old habits die hard. One of my relatives has had both parents, myself, an aunt and several friends all trying to bring some order into their home having cleaned it vigorously (it needed it). No one in the house did a thing to maintain it so it went to shit within a few days, if that.

I fully believe your brother needs to do it himself and basically train his kids to show more respect for their home. He’ll be more keen to keep the house nice if it’s him who’s worked his bollocks off cleaning and not someone else. I’d offer to have the kids for him so he can clean and tidy.

Was it a one-off clean, or regular clean? If a one-off, why couldn’t you help out? Maybe when dc are at gp, plan to do it with sil. Doing a job together makes it quicker. Put some funky, singalong music on, get some nice cake for elevenses, and tackle the job together.

YANBU to not want to do their cleaning but YABU to tell your brother to let you know if there was anything you could do to help. So many people throw around empty words like this to make themselves look good at that moment but then don’t actually follow through if/when the person does actually want the help. Don’t offer in future.