To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

Desmondo2016 Read the OP's posts and you will see why she can't do it.

"If there is anything I can do..." Means ask. It doesn't mean you definitely will be able to do what is asked.

OP, don't feel bad about saying no, your brother knows cleaning wasn't what you had in mind. If he wanted his house cleaned, he could do it on any of his free Saturday nights.

17:37TitianaTitsling

Oh it was not me! I was quoting junk crumpet.

What I feel is utter confusion as to why the OP offered help if she already has too much to do

Because she cares and could do what she's mentioned? Why ever would she not? There is quite a spectrum between hosting a playdate and cleaning a slovenly home.

This thread highlights how much simpler everything is when you were a self centred/taker person:

a taker:

• oh DSis offered a help, great! what is the most I can get from this arrangement, it would be great if she could do what she does for dad. It is so annoying that my current home appliance (aka wife) is broken.
• no consideration of: Dsis' own life, the fact that I don't do my share for DF, DSis' health (yeah she had cancer but surely she is fine now, can't even remember when she was in the hospital, was it last year?)
• no consideration whether that would be appropriate request
• hmm maybe I can even get her to do regular cleaning. she loves doing things for other people anyway, as a matter a fact it is good of me that I give her things to do, makes her feel great about herself.
• she said no?! but why? she offered! gave my hopes up, wasting my time to think up something she can help with. So unfair.

Meanwhile.... in the giver's mind:

• My life is really busy but DB is struggling maybe I can squeeze in something to help him a bit.
• Cleaning the whole house? can I possibly do it, run through everything I have in my plate, again and again.
• Maybe my offer was misunderstood, I did give examples, was it unclear? thinking about what actually I said to DB, played that conversation over and over again in my head.
• still unsure, maybe I'll ask people in MN.
• maybe I should not offered, DB take it so literally, it was probably my fault.

a month later...still feel bad about it and ruminating about it in terms whose fault was it.

smurfette, very true.

@Woundedadmiral

17:37TitianaTitsling

Oh it was not me! I was quoting junk crumpet.

Ah, thanks @Woundedadmiral!

I can see why you don't want to and how having the children in the comfort of your own home is a much more appealing offer but I also think that you could have maybe done it as a one off.

My brother was in a similar situation and I spent a couple of days tidying his house because it just got on top of them all.

They live in a lovely house, decorated and furnished nicely. I felt really good that brother, SIL and children had a nice home afterwards.

I only ever had to do it once more and that was just because I could see it getting on top of them again a few months letter. SIL is now much better and house is lovely.

I know it made a real difference to them at the time. living in an untidy house is enough to get me down and I do not suffer with depression.

Think it was slightly unkind, Brother was asking for help. I understand he is able to clean etc, but sometimes when you are living in it you just cannot see where to begin.

*later

You were kind to offer some help, but its completely understandable that your capacity to help is limited. I would suggest offering to take the kids on friday night and that will give him 2 nights to clean up himself.

I somebody says" if I can do anything to help let me know" its understood that might mean a bit of shopping etc not cleaning a messy house ! I have never heard of anybody asking that in response to the offer, people on here have some very odd ideas.

I'm really taken with the voting results.
I never knew you could expect so much.
Next time someone casually offers me help I'll promply get the mop and vacuum ready for their visit.

Don't be so hard on yourself op. You are already doing a huge amount, doing so much for your dad and cleaning his house. You have a baby and young child, they have school aged kids. You work full time too. I'm sure you'd have been happy to do a bit of shopping or childcare for them, but having to declutter and clean yet another house is too much.

smurfette1818 your post is so true.

OP XXXXX Hope you are doing OK.

All this "why can't you just clean for him?" is all part of the standard "poor menz, can't look after a house, can't look after the kids AND clean, wah wah" nonsense.

The longer women carry on with this projection of incompetence onto men, the longer men will carry on refusing to do "wifework" and palming it off onto the nearest female (in this case, his sister).

OP's DH is able to multitask and look after the kids, clean, cook etc.

SInce it's apparently "handmaidenish" (not anything like as handmaidenish as "why wouldn't you just clean for the poor man?") to suggest that the OP goes and teaches the useless man and his progeny how to clean the fucking house themselves, then I suggest another option - send her DH to help them clean.

If that doesn't galvanise the CF brother into doing it himself, then nothing will.

Honest to god, if my boys grow up to be this fucking feckless in the house, then I will consider that I have Failed in my duty as their mother to teach them how to be self-sufficient and not to rely on women to look after them.

I'm amazed at this thread. It's nothing to do with being a man and everything to do with needing help. When I had horrible post natal depression my in laws and mum would come and clean for us. I really appreciated it. Granted my DP could have done it but he was on his knees too.
'Let me know if there is anything I can do to help' definitely includes a bit of cleaning, laundry, taking kids out, maybe doing a food shop. Yes, it might put you out a bit. But that's what family and friends do in times of crisis. Except on this thread, where 'let me know if I can do anything help' means 'I plan to do very little but want to look like a nice person'. Literally a whole new level of self-centred nonsense. If you don't want to help, don't ask.

Exactly , @StepAwayFromGoogle!

This thread is so depressing. I feel like I've stepped back into the 1950s and it's no wonder women as a whole are no better off that back then and shockingly enough it's mainly because of others women's views!!!

The brother needs to put his big boy pants on and start acting like a father and husband. The wife has depression, not him. The children are old enough to help out and clean up after themselves. The brother has evenings and weekends (one weekend evening to himself as kids are at grandparents) with which to keep on top of housework. Plenty of single, working parents manage it.

@StepAwayFromGoogle

I'm amazed at this thread. It's nothing to do with being a man and everything to do with needing help. When I had horrible post natal depression my in laws and mum would come and clean for us. I really appreciated it. Granted my DP could have done it but he was on his knees too. 'Let me know if there is anything I can do to help' definitely includes a bit of cleaning, laundry, taking kids out, maybe doing a food shop. Yes, it might put you out a bit. But that's what family and friends do in times of crisis. Except on this thread, where 'let me know if I can do anything help' means 'I plan to do very little but want to look like a nice person'. Literally a whole new level of self-centred nonsense. If you don't want to help, don't ask.

So the women from your extended family pitched up to help?

@Dumakey

This thread is so depressing. I feel like I've stepped back into the 1950s and it's no wonder women as a whole are no better off that back then and shockingly enough it's mainly because of others women's views!!!

The brother needs to put his big boy pants on and start acting like a father and husband. The wife has depression, not him. The children are old enough to help out and clean up after themselves. The brother has evenings and weekends (one weekend evening to himself as kids are at grandparents) with which to keep on top of housework. Plenty of single, working parents manage it.

I agree. All that’s happened in the emancipation of women is that we’re now working full time on top of taking on the bulk of the household and caring responsibilities. Yay!

@Dumakey yes I agree with you but maybe OP should have said this to him in the first place instead of her empty offer ?
I dont know why people often say let me know if you need any help at all if they dont actually mean it. Its just words for the sake of it

Dontforgetyourbrolly

Aren't we all guilty at times, of offering help which actually doesnt encompass absolutely anything. Maybe it's a British thing, offering help, just like saying " let's meet for a coffee". The OP can clearly see and acknowledge that her brother is struggling but she has alot on her own plate. She has also been through difficult times herself, no help from the brother. She also cares for her elderly father, no help from the brother. There is a pattern there. Maybe this has partly led to the Op's sil having depression, who knows. But it isn't the Op's problem really.

It just really annoys me how it's just assumed that any household duties are for the women to do.

"@Dumakey yes I agree with you but maybe OP should have said this to him in the first place instead of her empty offer?"

It's not an empty offer though.

Whilst Op might not be doing what her brother wants, she would have the kids for him, facilitating him to do what he wants doing!

So it is helpful-he has said that the kids are the reason he can't do the house, ergo...

Well exactly @Dontforgetyourbrolly .

I sometimes feel I must be a man in a woman's body, as if someone said to me "Is there anything I can do to help" I would think they meant it. I'm obviously bright enough to know it doesn't mean financial help, but in this case I don't get all the angst.

DB asks for help cleaning the house - OP says nicely err no I spend enough time cleaning DFs and my own, but I will look after DCs to give you a bit of a break to do it. DB answers yes or no and life goes on.

It does remind me of when a friend was having an op and I'd said to her DH to let me know if they needed anything. Again in my mind I meant I could come and look after the DCs or do pick ups. He came back and said it would be nice if I could make them a lasagne . I still to this day don't know if he was joking or not, but I responded that I often got lasagnes from Cook when I didn't have time to make my own and did he know that they did home delivery and here was the email address. Never heard back from him, but I'm always very careful to qualify any offers of help now.

OP has explained countless times what she offered to help with... yet so many posts deem that she should do the one thing she did NOT offer to do... weird 🤔