To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

I would offer to babysit the kids so he can clean his own house. He might discover how to use a vacuum cleaner, miracles do happen!

@PatriciaPerch

I work as a support worker for families struggling (some are depressed tbh) and part of that sometimes IS doing the washing up/folding washing etc just an extra pair of hands etc and that is all very normal, it's the assumption the brother who doesn't have depression can't clean himself. Presumably the kids go to bed at some point and they are at grandparents one day/night a week. He also hasn't asked if his sister could come and HELP HIM clean the house whilst they are at their Mum and Dads, that would not be as bad imo. It is the everyday sexism that annoys me. I'm sure a man will come and explain why I am wrong at some point though....

sounds lovely @PatriciaPerch, what you do for the families.

I think if the situation were reversed and the DB was the one who suffers depression. The SIL would not dream asking anyone to clean the house for her. She would probably just run herself into the ground trying to do everything.

It is always the daughters who help with elderly parents, even if she works full time and has her own family to take care of. OP I know it is unlikely to be successful but you need to try to get your DB to do his share, don't just accept it. People take you for granted.

Honestly, when I was struggling with depression (and I’ve been there a few times in my life). Someone coming and helping me with the cleaning would have been the single most helpful thing they could do. I’d struggle to get up and do it myself, but the bigger the job got, the more figuring out where to start overwhelmed me, but the more the sight of it stressed me out.
Now none of that’s to say the OP has to do this for them. But I can see why he’d ask.

I would (possibly) say I’d go and help for a couple of hours on the evening their kids are at granny’s house, but I would be clear afterwards that this needs to be managed by him, and would outline what you’ve said above. I agree with you totally that this is something his wife would normally do so he wants you to do it.

Yes YABU.

You said to let you know if there was anything you could do to help. Your brother has let you know and now you won't!

You OFFERED to help in any way you can.

You made an offer and either you didn't really mean it, or you've changed your mind. Just be honest and tell your brother which applies.

Why offer to do anything you could to help if you did not mean it. I get your brother is probably lazy but he is dealing with 3 kids and a depressed wife. You say you know how sil feels and you must know seeing the house cleaner would help her recover but you don't care enough to help her. You could offer 1 1/2 hours a week and get your brother to take kids out while you get on with it. My cleaner gets kitchen, lounge, dining room, hall, stairs, bathroom and child's room cleaned in that time. I get that if your brother's house is really bad you might only get kitchen and lounge cleaned in this time. You could also talk to your niece/nephew's and show them where to put empty glass and sweet papers. If the house gets too bad the children risk living in sqalor and eventually SS will get involved and they risk being taken into care. These are your nieces and nephews. Could you not even put on a load of washing their school uniforms? You could prevent this but your annoyance with your brother is getting in the way of common sense and compassion. Help out for the sake of the children. If you were depressed would you want your sil to help your children out?

The OP gave examples of the help she was offering (babysitting and school run).

The very first post says the brother said ‘what would be the most helpful’ is if OP went round and cleaned. That tells me the brother understood very well what help OP was offering, but he changed that into what would be most helpful.

He also said he has no time because of the kids but that’s a lie, he has child free time on Saturdays.

"you must know seeing the house cleaner would help her recover but you don't care enough to help her."

Well then in that case, surely neither does her fucking husband who has enough child free hours to spend time with his wife & clean his own house.

I think YABU - you offered to help.

As for PP suggesting you take the kids so he can clean, perhaps the kids need more of him, not less, given that their mother isn't able to be as active just now?

I’d be really interested to know how he spends his children time. So you know OP? What’s he up to on the Saturdays he has free?

@FOJN

And as @ColleagueFromMars says, so many women on this board are so unsupportive of other women that it is no surprise Feminism is going nowhere.

I know it's almost as if some women think that men shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of misogyny either, they're happy to do it for them!

- although looking at the US election, this fact is no laughing matter. .

@caringcarer

You could offer 1 1/2 hours a week and get your brother to take kids out while you get on with it. My cleaner gets kitchen, lounge, dining room, hall, stairs, bathroom and child's room cleaned in that time.

Where is OP supposed to find these 1 1/2 hours every week? She has a FT job, kids, and cleans for their father!

It’s very easy for you to suggest this as you have a cleaner and don’t do any cleaning!

The mental load alone of being responsible for cleaning two houses is immense, trying to get OP to add a third house to her load is terrible advice.

@MordredsOrrery

I think YABU - you offered to help.

As for PP suggesting you take the kids so he can clean, perhaps the kids need more of him, not less, given that their mother isn't able to be as active just now?

But don’t OP’s children need more of their mum?

Offer to have the kids for an afternoon to give him the chance to clean round, it'll give Sil a bit of peace and quiet too.

If I said, 'anything I can do to help', and listed a couple of examples in the way in which I was willing and able to help, then if there's something else they'd like instead, I kind of expect it to be roughly equitable to what I have offered.

A bit like if I offer to spot someone a tenner, if they say, well, actually, what I'd really find very useful right now is fifty euro, I'm most probably going to demur.

@smurfette1818 or rather than the DF doing "his fair share" to look after DF the siblings have a conversation about it and agree what care can be outsourced and then split the rest. Possibly not when DB is looking after 3 DC by himself and his severely depressed DW is hospitalised though.

@HasaDigaEebowai

I don’t know your financial position Op but I’d use the excuse of the local lockdown which prevents you from going to his house anyway and pay for a one off clean for them. You’ll get around three hours for £40. I’d text and say

“Hi x, right I’m happy to help get you back on top of it all. I’ve arranged for a cleaner to come over and blitz the place on DAY for three hours. I’ll also send you my cleaning schedule that I use for our house since this might help you stay on top of it going forwards. If it helps then once we’re out of lockdown I could have the kids once a fortnight on a [insert day] for two hours to give you time to do the bigger cleaning tasks. Otherwise [name of cleaning service] is £[15] an hour so it might be a good investment whilst you’ve got your hands full. Xx”

This!

Even if it’s stretching your budget, I’d get someone else in and pay for it.

• you’re making clear it’s not something you’re prepared to do regularly, whilst also recognising you offered to do “something”
• it gets everything done and sorted and probably into a manageable level
• you’ll be highlighting to him that he needs a cleaning schedule, or to pay for a cleaner, and it’s not “women’s work”
• your SIL will come downstairs go a tidy and clean house and just breathe the way we all do when we open the front door and step inside after it’s freshly cleaned!

The thing is though the people saying going round and help at 7pm and the kids can get ready for school and get in a routine. At 7pm I’m putting my baby to bed, I’m bathing my 5 year old and getting her ready for school while my husband cleans our house- or vice versa. If I go round to clean their house while my brother looks after the kids it means I’m leaving dh to clean our house and look after our kids.
I work Monday- Friday 7-3. Dh starts later so he can do beakfasts and drop the kids at school/nursery. I pick the kids up come home make tea. We eat together as a family then it’s homework, family time, bath, and bed. One of us does bath and bedtime the other cleans up after the evening meal and has a quick tidy round.
One evening I go to my dads for a few hours and dh does tea, bath and bed and the cleaning. One evening he goes to the pub and I do tea, bath, bed and cleaning.
At the weekend I spend 4 hours cleaning, cooking and shopping for my dad while dh has the kids. When I come home he goes for a couple of hours to the gym, or to play golf or see a friend. In between that we do our own cleaning, washing, shopping for the week.
The remaining day is family day. Where we spend time together.
Having 3 extra kids at the weekend limits where we can go as the car only fits 5 but I have offered to have them and I love spending time with them. Picking up or dropping off 5 kids all with different start times and end times is a nightmare but again I have offered. Because that is practical things that I can help with and that I am able to do.
When I was in hospital and when I was recovering from surgery/chemo/radiation several people said anything they could do to help let me know. I didn’t literally take that as anything. More Julie offered to help -dd and her dd are best friends and in the same class at school and she picks her up. I wonder if she could have dd one evening for tea.
This thread has taught me that people are a lot more literal then I am. Going forward I will offer concrete things I can help with and no more.

I think your brother is a cheeky git. He obviously regards cleaning as woman’s work and since you clean for your df your brother thinks that he can ask you.
YANBU, as others have said. You can offer to take the kids for the night so that he can clean up his OWN house

If it was my sister as my niece's and nephews needing help I would offer to help in s heartbeat and to clean even though I hate cleaning, and go and clean for a couple of hours each week if necessary. When kids are at grandparents you could at least offer to go and help brother with the cleaning.

You did offer to help....

I would offer to help clean WITH your brother.

What now, Op should pay for her brother to have his house cleaned??!!

When he has enough time without the kids to easily do it himself?