To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

@Boobissue

Ha ha my god could you be any ruder? You think that me being able to clean my house alongside poor mental health is me virtue signalling being better than someone who can’t?! Bloody hell. Unbelievable.

Exactly how it read, you still managed, as if you're better than those that can't!

As well as millions of other people globally who simultaneously hold down jobs, raise families, care for elderly parents and clean their own houses. I am one of the majority. Nothing special about us. We do it because we have to. Because nobody else is going to step up. Because we have kids and social services would be interested if the house becomes a hovel. We just keep going and hope the depression lifts.

[quote CaptainBrickbeard]@RunningFromInsanity why can’t the children’s father (who isn’t depressed) do that for them? Since you point out it isn’t that much to do and won’t take long? Why should the woman already cleaning two houses do it instead of the not-depressed man?[/quote]
Yes, this. Since she offered to take the children...

This. You spend an hour of your time, and whip the kids and your brother into shape.

You think cleaning a house, large enough for a family of five to occupy, is going to take an hour?

Why offer to help if you didn't mean it?

IMO very few medical conditions are a free pass to let the environment your children live in (especially if you chose to have 3) go to shit. I have kept the household going through severe MH issues as well as a broken leg. Thats just parenting. There are no sick days. That said 3 DC, a FT job and a MH poorly wife is probably a lot for your DB. That doesn't mean you need to be responsible for cleaning their house but maybe offer to pop round and see how you can help. If he was up to his eye balls in it then I would be more inclined to help than if he thought he would be sat on his arse whilst I cleaned from top to bottom. Ultimately you can say no if you don't want to do it.

[quote CaptainBrickbeard]@RunningFromInsanity why can’t the children’s father (who isn’t depressed) do that for them? Since you point out it isn’t that much to do and won’t take long? Why should the woman already cleaning two houses do it instead of the not-depressed man?[/quote]
Because presumably he’s working, looking after the children, and trying to care for his ill wife.

Sounds like the OP only offered for the ‘easy’ stuff and to make herself feel better.
Does it really matter whether she cleans the house, goes shopping, bakes a lasagna or does the school run? Helps help.

"Takes an hour- hour and a half to do some basic tidying and cleaning.

Stick a load of washing on, put everything into a pile, quick dust and hoover, stick bleach down the toilet, do some dishes. Open some windows to let some air in.
Make sure the kids have some clean clothes for school."

Op's brother will have plenty of time to do that then won't he?

What he can with the kids there & the rest when they're not.

YANBU to not want to clean the house but YABU to say "... if there was anything I can do to help let me know"

Did you add the "e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run."

In your shoes I might say to brother I'd go and see your SIL for a coffee and suggest you do some tidying up together, this may provide her with company, a chance to chat and connect and also some practical help. Just an idea. Sorry if it has already been suggested.

@RunningFromInsanity he has Saturday night babysitting every week apparently from 5pm to 10am. The OP has no babysitting for her own kids and looks after her ill father’s house as well. He isn’t run ragged. He can clean his house. I don’t see how she could take it on in addition to what she’s already doing? Her brother has the capacity to do it. What she’s offered isn’t just the easy stuff at all.

@Rose789

I don’t think a cleaner is an option for a financial point of view. *@junkcrumpet* I offered to do the school run or have the kids overnight, and offered emotional support and a listening ear to them.

You clearly think you are in the right so what do you want? Complete strangers to agree with you ? Why do you need that?

I think you are unkind. You could give two hours to put a wash on, load the dishwasher, vacuum, rope the kids in to help you.

I think you are unkind tbh.

I also sense that you do resent your brother and how much help he gets from your parents. Which isn't really his fault if your parents offer help to him.

As well as millions of other people globally who simultaneously hold down jobs, raise families, care for elderly parents and clean their own houses. I am one of the majority. Nothing special about us. We do it because we have to. Because nobody else is going to step up. Because we have kids and social services would be interested if the house becomes a hovel. We just keep going and hope the depression lifts.

My sister has been hospitalised four times in the last 18 months, she's had three courses of ECT, various therapy and medication and nothing works for more than a few weeks.

She can't "just get on with it", it's this sort of ignorant attitude of "well I've had depression and I still functioned" that makes mental health issues still be viewed as "you can just pull yourself together".

No concept that actually it is a real and debilitating illness for the true sufferers.

Would you tell a cancer sufferer who had cancer in bones, kidney and was stage 4 that it's ok because you had a small skin mark removed and it was only a small surgery and you were fine?

The ignorance of depression as an illness is disgusting!

YANBU & it sounds to be like your DB sees cleaning as Women's work tbh. Reply telling him you'd be happy to have the kids overnight so that he can blitz the place himself, the CF.

"What she’s offered isn’t just the easy stuff at all."

And so what if it was anyway?

Op isn't a paid skivvy who has to give any help demanded.

She can choose for herself what help to with-or not in this case.

@SunshineCake do you think her brother is unkind to never help his ill father? Do you think her brother was unkind when he didn’t the OP when she was in hospital?

*didn’t help the OP when she was in hospital that should read.

@Boobissue

As well as millions of other people globally who simultaneously hold down jobs, raise families, care for elderly parents and clean their own houses. I am one of the majority. Nothing special about us. We do it because we have to. Because nobody else is going to step up. Because we have kids and social services would be interested if the house becomes a hovel. We just keep going and hope the depression lifts.

My sister has been hospitalised four times in the last 18 months, she's had three courses of ECT, various therapy and medication and nothing works for more than a few weeks.

She can't "just get on with it", it's this sort of ignorant attitude of "well I've had depression and I still functioned" that makes mental health issues still be viewed as "you can just pull yourself together".

No concept that actually it is a real and debilitating illness for the true sufferers.

Would you tell a cancer sufferer who had cancer in bones, kidney and was stage 4 that it's ok because you had a small skin mark removed and it was only a small surgery and you were fine?

The ignorance of depression as an illness is disgusting!

No ignorance here. I’m not divulging my life story to try and win a pissing contest. No ignorance here.

I think that you should compromise and say that you'll come and help your brother and the kids tidy up, you offered to help and it will help massively. When my MH is really bad the housework goes out the window and my DP is super busy looking after me and the kids and mentally that's exhausting for him too.

"I feel bad for saying no because I very rarely do because I’m such a people pleaser"

I do know how you feel. I too am a people-pleaser. It's difficult to say no. I think you need to be more careful when you offer people things. But you do have my sympathy for this tough situation.

Totally ignorant @justanotherneighinparadise obviously you think you're a better person because you just got on with it!

Such a dreadful attitude and why people still feel shame about mental health issues!

Being told "well I managed"

Your brother isn't asking you to help, he is asking you to do the cleaning for him. That's different.

As it is, if you are in a local lockdown area then you can't go into his house anyway. I would be a bit annoyed at the request though. You seem to be the person who is landed with a lot of the family work, and your brother hasn't though of how possible it would be for you to add to your load. He also doesn't help you with your caring responsibilities.

I too have suffered crippling depression and one of the things that helped me out of it was the realisation that I had to sort my shit out and clean my house for the sake of my children. Your brother doesn't need you to do the work for him (although he definitely wants you to), he needs to work out a sustainable way for them to cope long term.

[quote CaptainBrickbeard]@SunshineCake do you think her brother is unkind to never help his ill father? Do you think her brother was unkind when he didn’t the OP when she was in hospital?[/quote]
Her brother is in the wrong for not supporting his father, obviously.

Yes, OP offered to help: she offered specific helpful ideas she thought she could cope with under the circumstances and her own life.

Her brother sounds like a misogynistic wanker who feels cleaning is beneath him. He needs to pull his thumb out and sort that end of it out himself.

Her brother has child-free time to clean his own fucking house, too: the weekend when he ships the kids off to the grandparents.

HRTFT Do you work? If not then just go and help out for a couple hours. Get the dh and older kids to do their bit. You leave with a clear conscience as it's obviously on your mind! Sorted!