To say no to request to clean his house?

[Rose789]

I feel like a bitch and I’m awake at 1am worrying about it.
My brother and sil have 3 kids. Between ages of 4-10 (so all in school)
Brother works full time sil works part time (3 days a week)
Kids spend every Saturday night at their grandparents house.
Sil has been signed off for work for depression and is struggling and finding it difficult to get the motivation to do anything.
I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

He’s messaged today saying what would be the most helpful is if I could go round and clean the house as it’s a bomb site and sil isn’t doing any housework and he hasn’t got time with kids.
I’ve said no for several reasons

1. I have my own house to clean. Yes it’s hard trying to clean around kids I understand that. But that’s the same for everyone. The oldest 2 are more then old enough to start helping in the house but they have no chores at all. They will eat sweets and just drop the wrapper on the floor. Have a drink and the cup just gets put anywhere.

2. My dad has a lot of health issues. As a result I spend at least one day and one evening a week cleaning his house doing his washing making meals, getting shopping. My brother occasionally visits and doesn’t help at all.

3. I was ill at the start of the year and spent a lot of time in hospital. Dh managed to clean the house, look after the kids and visit me, and work full time. Brother and sil picked up dd from school on one day. No other help- or offers to help.

4. the kids are at their grandparents every single Saturday night. Blitz the place when they are gone if you can’t do it when they are there.
   I would kill for a night off every single week.

I know my reasons are valid. But I do also feel awful for sil I have been in a similar position where everything was just too much of an effort even getting out of bed. While the mess and dishes and washing piled up around me. It’s an awful place to be and it might help her if the house is clean and tidy and she doesn’t need to worry about it. But she has a husband who is just as capable as she is at stepping up and doing the cleaning.
I’m such a people pleaser I’m really struggling to stick to my guns and refuse to help.
I’m not being unreasonable am I?

You offered to help so I think you need to do what he wants doing, not what you’d prefer to do. Otherwise, your offer appears to be a shallow gesture to make yourself look good.

Maybe do it as a one-off rather than looking for excuses.

@CaptainBrickbeard I did read the OP and recognise it won't be easy for OP but offering genuine help rarely comes with no inconvenience! I am just saying what I would do, as a one-off, not regularly. Everyone is different and it's also valid to feel and act differently from me.

YANBU, stick to your guns Op. Your DB should be able to find time to clean and tidy etc when his kids are at their GPS and why should you clean up after his kids just because your DB and SIL allow them to drop food wrappers and leave drinks everywhere. It won't be a one off , they will expect you to do it again. Hopefully your SIL will improve soon now she is receiving treatment, but in the meantime your DB should be capable of cleaning his own house.

I still think you wer unreasonable.

BUT I think you need to take a step back and consider your situation. You seem to be doing far too much for everyone. It would be lovely if a friend flew from the US to look after me when I had a crisis, but that is going way beyond normal loving behaviour.
Is your partner (if there is one) and you children helping you with your own house?
Can your father get carers or home helps or whatever to do his house?
And DO NOT offer "is there anything I can do to help" when you really don't have the time or energy for that. Train yourself to only offer that which is reasonable (which is probably far less than you think). So say "I'll help with the school run if you need it" etc.

Even now, you can offer to help your brother sort out the house and show him how to get on top of it, but you aren't doing him a favour to let him abdicate all responsibility.

Although the one thing that an outsider can often do better is decluttering.

Your brother behaves like a CF. I'd be insulted by his request. Yes, he'd it himself or get a cleaner. What a CF.

I definitely take from this discussion that next time someone offers 'anything I can do to help' I should whip out my household 'to do' list and get them straight onto the next task - be that cleaning, selling a load of old stuff on ebay, or fixing the roof. Excellent.

Back in real life, I have experienced someone offering to 'help' with an event, then outright declining to do the task I asked them to do (which was only to walk 3 mins to the shop and buy four specific items, with my money). They definitely wanted to perform the sort of help that suited them and got them seen, only. No menial behind the scenes stuff. I was a bit pissed off, as it was a small request and their not doing it made my day more difficult but actually, offers of 'help' being heavily caveated by preference is normal.

Why not offer to do a blitz clean with all the family involved. On completion, allocate tasks to each one to do on a daily/weekly basis. From you OP it reads that the children are old enough just not expected to take any responsibility. You could then say you will offer advice and support on an ongoing basis but will expect them to work together to do the tasks.

@Boobissue

Don't be ridiculous *@Howlooseisyourgoose* that was a judgemental comment and you're being blind to say it wasn't!

All the shit she had to put up with and she still
managed to clean her house......

Well bully for her.

Well @justanotherneighinparadise posts were about the brother ‘being a cheeky fucker whose behaviour has probably resulted in the SILs depression’ and I’m inclined to think she is right and you are being ridiculous!

I think it is confusing for people when help is offered and the reaction is then: "Oh, not that help." I've had this happen to me when DH was sick. SIL was only interested in things like overseeing conversations with his doctor which I clearly needed to be part of myself. Not at all interested in helping with the kids one night.

The OP is not being THIS unreasonable but it us exhausting when you're trying to deal with something to navigate people's help offers that increasingly feel like they've been made to make the person feel like they've done their bit.

You were perfectly clear in your offer - you gave examples.

People to not whip out a contract with written T&Cs when they offer help. They rely on social norms. Which include not taking the piss.

Please do ask your DH to go round and help your brother clean. If he can do it with good cheer it will be genuinely helpful, while also making a point, more effectively than you ever could.

But yes only you know his track record for cheekiness. This may be that.

You offered! I would go round there and get the kids and brother to help. Get the kids started cleaning their own rooms while you start in the kitchen or wherever. Even if it's just a couple of hours. Otherwise offer again to take the kids and suggest brother does it while he has the house free

And DO NOT offer "is there anything I can do to help" when you really don't have the time or energy for that. Train yourself to only offer that which is reasonable (which is probably far less than you think). So say "I'll help with the school run if you need it" etc.

According to the OP that's what she DID do:

I text sil and told her if she ever needed any support or someone to listen I’m here for her.
Spoke to my brother told him if there was anything I can do to help let me know e.g if they wanted me to have the kids overnight or if they got stuck with the school run.

Seems like a case of "give a little finger and they take the whole hand" to me. Assuming the first post is accurate.

I'm with @OVienna - if it was a genuine offer, then it shouldn't come with major caveats. If the offer was purely to look after the DCs - and I'm not underestimating what a task that is - OP should have said I'd be happy to look after the DCs to help, not leave an open ended offer.

With the latest OP, I feel it would have been better to have offered nothing as OP is already envious of the childfree time that DB gets and looking after his DCs may also be a source of resentment.

Personally I'd rather clean their whole house than have three children round for a sleepover.

Same!!

@Howlooseisyourgoose what a vile thing to do, blame the DB based on one thing this OP had said. You think he's responsible for his wife's depression?

Do you understand about depression? It's a chemical imbalance, it's hereditary, it's caused by life changing events such as divorce, grief.

How the fuck have you decided based on this post that the DB has caused it? How would you feel if you were blamed if your partner became unwell?

Awful attitude and minimising the seriousness by effectively saying if the DB did more housework then his wife wouldn't have a debilitating illness and all would be wonderful.

You need to educate yourself about depression.

Offering support tends to mean being at the other end of the phone, maybe helping with the kids one day. Not being invited to clean someones house. Funny enough I dont have a cleaner, work full time have DC and a DH who is unable to do anything due to a terminal illness. I have never asked any of my friends or family who have offered help to pop round and give my house a scrub. Your brother is a CF

It seems like lots of people have experienced completely insincere offers of help and that’s informing their response but in this case, the OP wasn’t insincere in her offer and the help she’s willing to provide is an in on to her that she is prepared to take on and it is genuinely useful. The brother’s request isn’t a reasonable one given the OP’s circumstances and the wider family situation. So I agree it’s annoying when someone says ‘can I do anything to help’ when you’ve just had a baby for example and what they mean is they will ‘help’ bu cuddling the baby to free you up to make them a cup of tea. But that doesn’t mean that all offers of help phrased that way should be utterly without limit or condition. I think some people see the OP’s original phrasing of the offer as some kind of gotcha that not requires her to be her brother’s slave in perpetuity because she used the word ‘anything’. But as he has weekly babysitting and the OP is already doing so much, him asking her to clean his house really isn’t reasonable or fair.

[quote Boobissue]@CaptainBrickbeard

I'm actually responding to another poster saying I still did my housework like she is anything special!

Read my post and stop with irrelevant nonsense to me, you want the DB to be in the wrong, I think the entire thread had got that?
[/quote]
Ha ha my god could you be any ruder? You think that me being able to clean my house alongside poor mental health is me virtue signalling being better than someone who can’t?! Bloody hell. Unbelievable.

If it was my sibling I'd do it. You offered to help and that's what would help.

Takes an hour- hour and a half to do some basic tidying and cleaning.

Stick a load of washing on, put everything into a pile, quick dust and hoover, stick bleach down the toilet, do some dishes. Open some windows to let some air in.
Make sure the kids have some clean clothes for school.

Depression is a fucker.
Do it for your nieces/nephews if anything.

Sorry, so many typos in my previous post it might not make sense. But I wonder how many people saying ‘well you did offer ANYTHING’ would have asked for a house clean if they were in the brother’s situation? I’m thinking not many! Because I’m sure all those posters are much more fair and reasonable people and would know that isn’t what the OP was offering and it’s not something she can be expected to take on in addition to what she is already managing.

Ha ha my god could you be any ruder? You think that me being able to clean my house alongside poor mental health is me virtue signalling being better than someone who can’t?! Bloody hell. Unbelievable.

Exactly how it read, you still managed, as if you're better than those that can't!

@RunningFromInsanity why can’t the children’s father (who isn’t depressed) do that for them? Since you point out it isn’t that much to do and won’t take long? Why should the woman already cleaning two houses do it instead of the not-depressed man?

@OldEvilOwl

You offered! I would go round there and get the kids and brother to help. Get the kids started cleaning their own rooms while you start in the kitchen or wherever. Even if it's just a couple of hours. Otherwise offer again to take the kids and suggest brother does it while he has the house free

This. You spend an hour of your time, and whip the kids and your brother into shape.