DD is always put with disruptive children...AIBU to ask her to move?

[peacockfeather11]

Every year this happens and I always try and say nothing because I don't want to be that mother that comes in to school complaining. But this year I am furious! My DD has been put on a table with the most disruptive and she's in tears and I can truly understand. It's too much too ask of her and she's so sensitive she never wants to let the teacher down which I feel is manipulated.

Do I ask the teacher to move her or AIBU?

"I'm a teacher who gets fed up with some colleagues expecting children to carry the burden of behaviour management for the teachers."

Children do not carry the burden for behaviour management. This is an odd thing for a teacher to say. Who on earth could possibly think that?

But they really do have to sit somewhere.

Right so fir clarity they need to suck up having the table wobbled as they write, stuff fiddled with, manspreading, stuff "borrowing" chairs kicked, stuff chucjed about etc but its all good if they'll don't have bruises to prove it to their arsehole parents.

Got it.

[quote sergeilavrov]@rawlikesushi Ignoring the majority of the post yet again. However, I’ll do you the service of an answer. In our school, we use specialist TAs to sit at tables with the more disruptive children (who, yes, are grouped together). We also have pastoral staff who can take children out for periods of time where necessary, sensory rooms, early/late entry into class. Some children, yes, are not invited to come back in future semesters because the environment isn’t right for them.

If you agree the problem is funding (as I said), and you have indicated protest is something you believe is effective, why not send those children directly to SLT offices until they have to do something? Seems like a better option than disrupting other children, despite the ‘benefits’ you imagine exist for them. Being a teacher is hard, but the answer isn’t letting children take the hit for the lack of support you’re offered.[/quote]
Yes we do all of those things and more.

But there are times when those children are in the classroom too.

For the avoidance of doubt - no child should have to endure bullying or physical hurt
Bit of a low standard though, you can have your education disrupted as long as you're not being physically hurt or bullied.

Children do not carry the burden for behaviour management. This is an odd thing for a teacher to say. Who on earth could possibly think that?
When quiet and compliant children are expected to put up with disruptive behaviour, else their teacher considers them whiny then they are shouldering the burden.
If a teacher's view is 'ah but what can we do', then the impact of the disruption is felt by the children.
If the teacher's attitude to repeated disruption is 'cry me a river' then the children are shouldering the burden.
But they really do have to sit somewhere.
They do, but the teacher has a responsibility to deal with disruptive behaviour, not expect children to put up with it and brand them whiny if they object.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Right so fir clarity they need to suck up having the table wobbled as they write, stuff fiddled with, manspreading, stuff "borrowing" chairs kicked, stuff chucjed about etc but its all good if they'll don't have bruises to prove it to their arsehole parents.

Got it.

Yes my little boy with the brain injury does a lot of those things.

He's been on the waiting list for a place in special Ed for about a year.

He's gorgeous, just an absolute delight. He hasn't got the capacity to control his impulses. He's probably a bit of a pain to sit next to but the kids in my class fall over themselves to do so.

"They do, but the teacher has a responsibility to deal with disruptive behaviour, not expect children to put up with it and brand them whiny if they object."

It depends what they're complaining about.

Some definitely whiny. Sorry if it's your child, but they are.

Finally sone honesty. Now can you at least admit that to a quiet compliant or people pleasing child that could have a detrimental impact on their education. That its possible to not wish any ill on the kid and hold deep affection and sympathy fir said child and still recognise that any child who struggles with deaking with this behaviour being aimed at them is not sone horrific intolerebt whiny brat but a child with their own issues and still learning themselves.

Its possible to see both those sides without insukting a child who physically can't put up with it.

And yes they will deal with it at school they would jump off cliffs if their teachers asked them to or showed attention to them as a result.
But that doesn't mean at home they are happy.

rawlikesushi
Nice drip feed there.
But back to your claim that people just don't want their child sitting next to someone they don't like, and that children/parents are whiny for wanting to learn. Most disruptive students don't have brain injury or SEND, so are you still standing by your claims that children should repeatedly have their education disrupted as long as they aren't physically injured and that any parent wanting their child to learn at school is whiny.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Finally sone honesty. Now can you at least admit that to a quiet compliant or people pleasing child that could have a detrimental impact on their education. That its possible to not wish any ill on the kid and hold deep affection and sympathy fir said child and still recognise that any child who struggles with deaking with this behaviour being aimed at them is not sone horrific intolerebt whiny brat but a child with their own issues and still learning themselves.

Its possible to see both those sides without insukting a child who physically can't put up with it.

And yes they will deal with it at school they would jump off cliffs if their teachers asked them to or showed attention to them as a result.
But that doesn't mean at home they are happy.

No, an NT child in a well-managed classroom should not suffer any detrimental impact to their education from sitting next to SEN child for a few weeks. In fact, they might learn something themselves.

No, an NT child in a well-managed classroom should not suffer any detrimental impact to their education from sitting next to SEN child for a few weeks.

Nice job of shifting from disruptive behaviour to SEN there.

Also nice job of talking about a 'well managed' classroom.

Just throughout the thread you've been fairly clear that you consider children who wish to learn to be whiny and shown contempt towards any parent who dares express concerns that their child's education is being hindered by disruptive behaviour.

"Nice drip feed there.
But back to your claim that people just don't want their child sitting next to someone they don't like, and that children/parents are whiny for wanting to learn. Most disruptive students don't have brain injury or SEND, so are you still standing by your claims that children should repeatedly have their education disrupted as long as they aren't physically injured and that any parent wanting their child to learn at school is whiny."

What drip feed?

I've been saying throughout the thread that I've got 12 children in my class of 33 with complex SEN.

I think most disruptive children do have SEN actually, whether diagnosed or not, or mental health issues, or troubling home lives.

I have never said that children should repeatedly have their education disrupted, in fact I have said that the seating plan needs regular adjustments to ensure that no child is impacted detrimentally.

Yes. This is absolutely a thing. Usually studious trouble free girls put next to difficult boys.

"ust throughout the thread you've been fairly clear that you consider children who wish to learn to be whiny and shown contempt towards any parent who dares express concerns that their child's education is being hindered by disruptive behaviour."

No, I love children who wish to learn.

And I have no issue with parents who have a genuine complaint.

But yes, some kids are whiny and some parents are arseholes with unrealistic expectations of mainstream education.

Wow, your standards must be pretty low if you don't think that being unable to even write anything down as your pens been taken or the table is being kicked/wobbled , won't have any effect on the child's education.

You realky don't give a shit about any of the other kids do you. They are just there to absorb behaviour so you get some peace from having to manage it.

Nice.

@OverTheRainbow88

Good girls being used to control unruly students is infuriating

It’s also Works both ways, so hard working quiet boys being paired With disruptive and loud girls.

OP, I would raise it, so next time the teacher changed seating plan they will think carefully about who to pair your DD with.

OMG.

This post has just clicked what was going on with my son last year. He was being used to calm the worst behaved girl in the year!

I'm kicking myself I didn't realise this at the time but thank you for pinpointing the unease I'd been feeling about it.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Wow, your standards must be pretty low if you don't think that being unable to even write anything down as your pens been taken or the table is being kicked/wobbled , won't have any effect on the child's education.

You realky don't give a shit about any of the other kids do you. They are just there to absorb behaviour so you get some peace from having to manage it.

Nice.

No I haven't got a lot of time for whiny, spurious complaints from kids or parents.

I know teachers are supposed to hang on your every word and all, but it's not for me.

Well coming someone who thinks as long as they aren't being physically attacked then all is good im not bothered what you think of me.

Just glad you aren't my kids teacher.

Classroom management is really difficult.

Op if your Dc are suffering yes talk to the teacher.

However i will also add to the thread that the likelihood of children with additional needs in the class is high, echp's are regularly refused.

The year before my ds was diagnosed with adhd a difficult child to manage- sitting on his own didn't work - teacher said he would get up and disturb the whole classroom, he was sat next to the next disriptive child - he also found other biy distracted him more so probably distracted the class more.
He wasn't aggressive, a bully or naughty but he was really struggling in school.

I think what is really lacking from this thread that for my ds it was difficult, he felt upset when in trouble, didn't understand why he couldn't behave like the other children, he actually wanted to learn.

Teachers are been asked to manage lots of challenging children with in many circumstances definitely not enough Ta support in the classroom.

My ds is now medicated and much calmer in the classroom however he also can feel upset, find it difficult to get on with his work if he feels he is in the wrong seat.. try putting that in a seating plan.

I actually think the parents of the quiet hard workibg kids don't actually care, they woukd have the more challenging children just given up on and removedfrom the class given this is actually very sad given most if these discussions are on primary school children

No I haven't got a lot of time for whiny, spurious complaints from kids or parents
The problem is your definition of spurious is anything other than bullying or physical injury.

I know teachers are supposed to hang on your every word and all, but it's not for me
It's not hanging on every word of parents to acknowledge when they're concerned about their child's education is being disrupted!

When I listed some of the ways children get their education disrupted without bullying or violence, your response was that children should suck it up and they might learn something. You consider it whiny if parents want their children to learn.

Your overall attitude gives a wonderful insight into why as a form tutor I end up with additional work following up entirely justified parental concerns.

For someone who claims to care about the disruptive students you seem awfully keen to write them off by having shockingly low expectations of them. Imagine being a disruptive student and your teacher allows you to ruin your own education and other children's because they accept that's just what you're like. Then we wonder why students get to year 9, have substantial knowledge and skills gaps, think they're stupid because the gap between them and their peers is large, and they continue to mess around because staff have acceithst they're just a naughty child who should be left alone as loyas they're not bullying or physically harming anyone

My DD age 14 has had this happen since going back after summer. Top set but there is a boy that always messes around. Teacher actually told her it’s because she’s a good influence 🙄

You know Starlight I hope that’s not true. In my boy’s primary it was very evident long before it was made official that two children had SEN. Both were diagnosed with autism and something I live about our school is how much they are at the centre and how they are always invited to parties and given parts in the plays etc. My very quiet boy adores one of these boys in particular and is always his travel partner - they have a great time. I still asked for him to be moved recently not because the child had SEN or was even hugely naughty but because he was making my child very unhappy and he doesn’t yet have strategies for managing such a boisterous boundary impervious little soul. I hope the whole balancing thing is never as simple as naughty and good. I teach high school and try to make sure plans work and happily my learners can usually articulate how they feel if they don’t like where they end up.

"For someone who claims to care about the disruptive students you seem awfully keen to write them off by having shockingly low expectations of them."

How so do I write them off?

I take the advice of everyone involved in their care, advocate strongly for them and get good results.

Do you mean because sometimes they display unwanted behaviours that it may take a little while to address?

Or because the advice of the outside agencies involved with their care might recommend allowing certain behaviours? I'm afraid I take the behavioural advice of professionals more experienced than myself not mn randoms or parents who think they know all there is to know about managing a classroom.

I hope the whole balancing thing is never as simple as naughty and good. I teach high school and try to make sure plans work and happily my learners can usually articulate how they feel if they don’t like where they end up.
Same here.

Though apparently this would make some of my students 'whiny'. I'd hate for my DC to be in a situation where they felt they couldn't speak to a teacher for fear of being dismissed or told to put up with disruption.

I'd be really annoyed as a parent (and teacher) I found my child had been dismissed as whiny for wanting to get on with their work.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Well coming someone who thinks as long as they aren't being physically attacked then all is good im not bothered what you think of me.

Just glad you aren't my kids teacher.

Me too. I'm guessing the Apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.

@Idontbelieveit12

My DD age 14 has had this happen since going back after summer. Top set but there is a boy that always messes around. Teacher actually told her it’s because she’s a good influence 🙄

Let's hope the seating is rearranged after half term.