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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Ban the term "so-called" honour killings"

133 replies

areallthenamesusedup · 01/10/2020 22:22

Am I wrong to think that we should stop using the term as it is sugar coating murder?

Using the word 'honour'...even with the prefix 'so-called'....is dressing something as "cultural" and thus disguises that these killings are just plain & simple misogyny.

Am I wrong to think that "so called-honour killings" are just murder.

It seems to be a term in wide use but I am genuinely puzzled why it is acceptable.

OP posts:
iamruth · 01/10/2020 22:29

YANBU

D4rwin · 01/10/2020 22:30

Murder is murder, definitely shouldn't be called anything that takes away from that crime or implies an "excuse", crime of passion, people being "driven" to domestic violence etc. Taking the NZ line and not naming killers, not giving them media coverage and that weird sort of fame is probably a good step too.

GeorgeDavidson · 01/10/2020 22:31

Accurate reporting. Like ‘so called joy riders’
As in that’s what everyone calls them but there’s no ‘joy’ in nicking a car and killing someone

D4rwin · 01/10/2020 22:32

Date rape is another one. It's rape.

redcarbluecar · 01/10/2020 22:33

I suppose the term is used to categorise a type of murder, but agree with you.

Itsabeautifuldayheyhey · 01/10/2020 22:33

It is the kind of people who carry out such murders who actually refer to it as an honour killing. There is no honour in it at all. Yes, it is murder.

Although saying 'so-called honour killing' does show you don't think of the killing as having anything honourable about it, it probably would help to just call it murder.

Ginfordinner · 01/10/2020 22:35

I agree. Murder should never be glamourised or made to sound respectable.

It should be called fillicide, which is the deliberate act of a father killing their own child.

wigglerose · 01/10/2020 22:36

I agree with PP that say it indicates that there's no 'honour' to it, so maybe so-called honour murder would be better. Or murder. Let's not mince words.

SerenityNowwwww · 01/10/2020 22:37

Oh god yes. It’s murder - particularly nasty murder.

Fizbosshoes · 01/10/2020 22:39

YANBU

CakeGirl2020 · 01/10/2020 22:39

Murder is murder. Nobody has the right to take someone’s life.

There is certainly no honour in murder

Original poster
areallthenamesusedup · 01/10/2020 22:39

Glad I am not alone...though so sad about it all......

(Had a gripe at my university lecturer who kept talking about "child prostitutes"........there is no such thing......its child abuse or child exploitation......)

OP posts:
Divebar · 01/10/2020 22:46

No. It’s just a way to categorise a killing / murder which provides context like “ domestic murder” Or “ stranger rape” - it doesn’t glamourise anything. Far worse is terminology like child porn rather than child abuse images which you see user frequently.

JunkCrumpet · 01/10/2020 22:50

YABU. An honour killing is a type of murder. It's not being watered down or sugar-coated at all. You sound as dumb as saying that calling someone a "serial killer" is sugar-coating calling them a "murderer". It's not, you're being silly.

SerenityNowwwww · 01/10/2020 22:54

So call it murder. How does ‘honour’ come into it?

Xiaoxiong · 01/10/2020 22:59

I do think there is some value and additional data in having a term that defines these types of murders, if that helps prevent them. So for instance the steps to take to prevent an "honour killing" will be different from the steps taken to prevent the murder of a teenager involved in county lines, to take the first example that pops into my head. It isn't "just murder" - it is a distinct kind of murder, with distinct causes and victims. Not just anyone can be the victim or perpetrator of this kind of murder - it is culturally circumscribed.

YANBU to query whether the term needs to be changed though - who knows what might be better though, "honour-related murder" or "culturally related filicide", maybe some other term but it has to be readily understood to fit this particular pattern of cause of murder. at the moment everyone understands what the term "honour killing" means and I don't think it minimises the gravity of the fact that it is actually murder.

JunkCrumpet · 01/10/2020 23:02

@SerenityNowwwww

So call it murder. How does ‘honour’ come into it?
An honour killing is where a family member (usually a woman) is killed for doing something that brought "shame" upon her family. It is done to restore "honour" in the family by removing the "disgraced" person. In strict cultures, daughters are often murdered for having boyfriends or getting pregnant etc. So, it's called an honour killing because the purpose is to restore "honour" by removing the "bad" person. OP is just getting her knickers in a twist saying people are trying to make it sound better than it is - they obviously aren't as honour killings are considered to be one of the worst forms of murder as they're committed by those that the victim trusts and tend to come after a lifetime of oppression.
StoneofDestiny · 01/10/2020 23:02

I agree. They justify murder by using the word 'honour', when they are just cowardly men killing innocent people who don't live by their ridiculous rules.

I also think they should stop saying 'terrorists' and just say 'murderers'.

StillWeRise · 01/10/2020 23:03

honour based violence is the term used
it is indeed useful to characterise the motivation for this awful type of crime

JunkCrumpet · 01/10/2020 23:04

This thread is hilarious. Why don't we stop using words all together? Just point at people and give a thumbs up or a thumbs down to determine if they're good or bad. Otherwise someone will find some reason to be offended by something.

SerenityNowwwww · 01/10/2020 23:05

I get what the supposed ‘reason’ is - I just can’t quite get my head around how murdering your child is in any way honourable.

Do they really think that people will look at them and think ‘that Phil is a really honourable man - he smothered his daughter for wearing makeup’. Do many sons her honour-killed?

lazylinguist · 01/10/2020 23:08

Confused It's not glamourising it or making it sound not like murder. It's just being specific about a particular category of murder and the motivation behind it. It's hard to tackle the prevalence and causes of specific types of crime if you just lump them all in together.

lazylinguist · 01/10/2020 23:15

I get what the supposed ‘reason’ is - I just can’t quite get my head around how murdering your child is in any way honourable. Do they really think that people will look at them and think ‘that Phil is a really honourable man - he smothered his daughter for wearing makeup’. Do many sons her honour-killed?

Do you think that calling it something else will stop it happening? Or that people use the term because they agree that killing your daughter is an honourable thing to do? The name describes the motivation for the crime, so that we know what kind of murder we're talking about. That doesn't mean that other people don't understand that it's evil and misogynistic.

StillWeRise · 01/10/2020 23:15

if you watched the programmes this week (Honour) you would have learnt that yes, in some communities people really do think murdering a woman for stepping out of line restores the family's honour.

seayork2020 · 01/10/2020 23:16

I dont see the labels as prettyfying it but categorising it, and not sure political correcting it changes it.

Same as parents sexually abusing a child is sexual abuse

Earning money for the child having sex is prostitution

Both these crime should mean the parents get locked away for life and to me both crimes are equally as bad as the other but they have different labels