Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School forcing 8am start for my SEN girl?

628 replies

emmapemma91 · 30/09/2020 13:04

So I’m having quite a lot of bother with my little girls school. She’s not settling in very well and becoming very distressed when going into school and can become aggressive.
She’s waiting on assessment for possible Autism. She’s 6 and in year 2.

She’s on a reduced timetable at the minute but the school are forcibly telling me they want her in at 8am to give her time to settle before her class come in at 8.45. I’ve told them each time my sons school taxi comes sometime between 8.15 - 8.25 and I can’t get her there, chase her around while she tries to run away, then carry her into school then be back in time for my sons taxi. Yet every day they say the same thing, she hasn’t settled and needs to be in 8am. If I miss his taxi I can’t get him to school as I don’t drive and it’s quite far away.

Is there any solution? I’m sick of fighting with the school to support my daughter.

OP posts:
WhoseThatGirl · 30/09/2020 13:31

Can she go in after the rest of school?
Can she arrive at a normal time but be supported in a quiet room for a while to ease her transition?
Could she enter the building by an alternative entrance if it’s the noise and busyness that’s a problem?
Why do you think she is she becoming distressed at drop off?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 30/09/2020 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ as it repeats a withdrawn message. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bupkis · 30/09/2020 13:32

So, you have a solutuon for her.

To be honest, this solution is offered up many times, to parents with children with additional needs... and it was offered to us for ds....however, it is usually out of convenience to the school rather than the child.

The fact the school is not supportive of the EHCP is a real shame. Is it the only option schoolwise?

Bupkis · 30/09/2020 13:34

@Legoandloldolls

The fact here ( as a parent who has done and won SEN appeals) that the school can not meet your daughters needs.

This is not a reasonable adjustment. There are laws to protect SEN children and it's better to just focus on the LA and schools legal responsibilities.

You need to apply to your LA to her your dd assessed for a EHCP. The LA might refuse but the legal bar for appeal is extremely low.

Dont listen to anyone who thinks your dd needs to bend to what works best for the school. That is not how it works in law. Thank God.

If you need any help please PM me. There is so much misinformation and BS about meeting needs floating about.

It will never be a good time for school to put your dd needs first. There will always be another funding, staffing etc issue after this pandemic

This

...and ask on the SEN boards, but it is quite quiet there.

Asterion · 30/09/2020 13:35

The school sounds like they are really on the ball in supporting your DD, and you yourself say it's helped her on the days you did manage to get her in.

How about you get there a bit before 8am, take her in on the dot of 8am, then get back to your house for your DS's taxi?

Sirzy · 30/09/2020 13:35

Is this the closest school to you?

If she can only cope with a part time table I think applying for the ehcp is right but it’s concerning that a school thinks a child who can only do part time doesn’t need one!

If there is a closer school which is perhaps more supportive that may help? Could reduce some of the inevitable morning rush too because I know with my son (autism full time 1-1) and hint of feeling rushed in a morning can throw the whole day!

DeciduousPerennial · 30/09/2020 13:35

How is a longer day and extra stress in the morning supposed to fix this? They’ve recognised that arrival at 8:45 with everyone else isn’t working, but this suggestion is about what works best for them, not her.

Codexdivinchi · 30/09/2020 13:36

@Legoandloldolls

The fact here ( as a parent who has done and won SEN appeals) that the school can not meet your daughters needs.

This is not a reasonable adjustment. There are laws to protect SEN children and it's better to just focus on the LA and schools legal responsibilities.

You need to apply to your LA to her your dd assessed for a EHCP. The LA might refuse but the legal bar for appeal is extremely low.

Dont listen to anyone who thinks your dd needs to bend to what works best for the school. That is not how it works in law. Thank God.

If you need any help please PM me. There is so much misinformation and BS about meeting needs floating about.

It will never be a good time for school to put your dd needs first. There will always be another funding, staffing etc issue after this pandemic

Great post.
Chrissiemcghee · 30/09/2020 13:36

I had a similar situation when my little boy was in nursery. He has autism and ADHD and other complex ASN. There were around 40 children all arriving in a small space at once and he was unable to cope. It is very distressing and I 100% understand how you feel. I wonder if your son and daughter's head teachers could discuss it between themselves? If they both go to schools within the same authority there is scope for your son's school to talk to the transport providers to somehow find a way to accommodate everyone. If THEY are unwilling to talk to one another you might be able to escalate it through the authority. I really hope you get this sorted out it sounds like a stressful situation.

Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 13:37

Op I would strongly recommend you call the contact a family helpline. They have helped my dbro deal with similar with my dn.

AFAIK they can’t require you to bring her in early and I think you are well within your rights to explain this won’t work given your school pick up time for your eldest.

SeaToSki · 30/09/2020 13:38

Can you drop her off at 7:50? Then you would be back in time for your son’s taxi

Bupkis · 30/09/2020 13:39

@Asterion

The school sounds like they are really on the ball in supporting your DD, and you yourself say it's helped her on the days you did manage to get her in.

How about you get there a bit before 8am, take her in on the dot of 8am, then get back to your house for your DS's taxi?

If they are not supporting the child by applying for an EHCP and making reasonable adjustments that don't require the op to... Learn to drive...get her other child with SEN to an out of area school...get the dad to change working patterns... get the LEA to change their rules re transport, or somehow to persuade the LEA to provide transport within the area....

Then they are not 'really on the ball'

Jellycatspyjamas · 30/09/2020 13:39

Can she go in after the rest of school?
Can she arrive at a normal time but be supported in a quiet room for a while to ease her transition?
Could she enter the building by an alternative entrance if it’s the noise and busyness that’s a problem?

Any of these might be a good option for her - have the school offered any of these as a possibility? The reality is you can’t be in two places at once, and I wouldn’t be sending my distressed child to school in a taxi - the early start does seem to suit the school but it has to be workable for you, help reduce your daughters distress (as opposed to helping her mask her distress) and work for the school.

Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 13:40

@CuriousaboutSamphire poor schools don’t want kids getting ECHPs because the school has to fund most of the support. That’s why so many parents end up having to apply themselves

unmarkedbythat · 30/09/2020 13:41

OP, listen to @Legoandloldolls, not the pp on this thread making such helpful suggestions as "learn to drive" Hmm

AldiAisleofCrap · 30/09/2020 13:41

@emmapemma91 yes please report this thread and ask for it to be moved to the SEN board. Some of these comments are awful.

Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 13:41

Just wondering who the over 20 fools were who think poor op is being U

Try walking in the shoes of parents of dc with sn

So sorry to read this op

justasking111 · 30/09/2020 13:41

Can you be a home educator, or would the school allow you to stay with her for the transition period when other pupils arrive.

Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 13:42

Yes pls do report and get this moved to sn

So sad to see comments and voting here Sad

MillieEpple · 30/09/2020 13:42

As she is on a part-time timetable, could she do afternoons instead?

Potterpotterpotter · 30/09/2020 13:44

Can’t you ask the actual people that drive the transport bus to pick him up from the school? My son gets transport and the driver would do this if I asked..

Otherwise can you ask the school to do 7.50? Then walk back.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 30/09/2020 13:46

[quote Onceuponatimethen]@CuriousaboutSamphire poor schools don’t want kids getting ECHPs because the school has to fund most of the support. That’s why so many parents end up having to apply themselves[/quote]
I had no idea it was that bad in some places.

DSis teaches that age bracket and uses all the help she has as best she can. That includes going in early to accommodate those who need an earlier start time to get settled.

I taught the other end, Post Compulsory, and was always surprised how hard parents fought for SENCO attention, as we gave all students a swift assessment and offered SENCO advice as an when requested, support as identified. It's different by then, in FE and HE, as it's adult funding and the student has the right to have all previous interventions forgotten - you'd be surprised how many most vehemently want that to happen!

Sirzy · 30/09/2020 13:47

www.ipsea.org.uk/ It may be worth getting in touch with them for some advice, and look for any local charities or organisations that may be able to support you.

I think you need to get a clear idea of what you think will work best for her and then fight for that. If you know quiet when she arrives help then school need to find a safe space for her to go (for ds it’s an office which now has some sensory toys in for him)

How long is she actually in school for at the moment?

GlomOfNit · 30/09/2020 13:47

OP, what a tricky situation. It's good that school are trying to support your DD with this sort of intervention but clearly it's not going to work for your family. I'd echo what another poster suggested and ask school if she could come in later than official start time, then she misses the chaos and noise of everyone else getting in at the same time, which I think she'd be hard-pressed to avoid if she got there earlier.

I agree with others, 45 minutes is a LONG time to add on to a 6 year old's school day, even without SEN! And a long time to be the only child in school. My DS is severely autistic and we tried him in a MS school for Foundation before moving swiftly onto a SS. They decided he should come in 10 minutes before start time and that worked well - it gave him time to run about a bit, then be settled before the others. I think if he'd had 45 minutes rattling around in an empty school he'd have become unsettled again!

Jellycatspyjamas · 30/09/2020 13:51

Dear God, there’s so little understanding of the duty the local authority has to support SEN provision. It’s really not the case that the OP should acquiesce to the demands of the school here, learn to drive, foist her child into school transport or unsettle her other child.

There are a dozen different ways to support children into school that don’t involve the child being there 45 mins early, or her mum being in two places at once. I’d be interested to know how the reduced timetable came about - all to often it’s used to edge children out of education, if they have put a part time timetable in place, it should form part of an EHCP which clearly sets out how they’ll support the child’s access to education.

These children and their families aren’t an inconvenience to be managed to suit the school.