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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School forcing 8am start for my SEN girl?

628 replies

emmapemma91 · 30/09/2020 13:04

So I’m having quite a lot of bother with my little girls school. She’s not settling in very well and becoming very distressed when going into school and can become aggressive.
She’s waiting on assessment for possible Autism. She’s 6 and in year 2.

She’s on a reduced timetable at the minute but the school are forcibly telling me they want her in at 8am to give her time to settle before her class come in at 8.45. I’ve told them each time my sons school taxi comes sometime between 8.15 - 8.25 and I can’t get her there, chase her around while she tries to run away, then carry her into school then be back in time for my sons taxi. Yet every day they say the same thing, she hasn’t settled and needs to be in 8am. If I miss his taxi I can’t get him to school as I don’t drive and it’s quite far away.

Is there any solution? I’m sick of fighting with the school to support my daughter.

OP posts:
Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 19:29

Ehcp not echo

So sad to see the voting here Sad

So many ignorant people

gamerchick · 30/09/2020 19:38

[quote StatisticalSense]@AGoatAteIt
I suspect that rerouting the taxi or providing the son with alternative transport is going to be part of the solution whether or not the OP accepts the advice to get her to school for 8am (for which I see no reason as to why she should). Whatever the school puts into place is much less likely to work if the daughter is unnecessarily anxious when she arrives on site due to the lack of a fixed morning routine and the limited time between the pick up and her needing to be at school causing her to have to rush about (and presumably be sat ready to leave waiting for the taxi at least a couple of times a week).[/quote]
Ignorance still going on I see. 'Just reroute the taxi' THERE IS NO WAY OF DOING THAT Hmm

This is the best one though. Grin

What about if you moved house

I actually laughed. Bravo.

Jellycatspyjamas · 30/09/2020 19:39

You need to be more flexible and do whatever it takes to get her there on time.

She can and does her there on time, they want her there 45 minutes early.

DobbinReturns · 30/09/2020 19:41

It's far rarer for a taxi not to be shared, the provider will be trying to have every available seat filled. It's not her son's school problem, it's not the transport provider's problem either. The LA are not going to put additional funds into her son's transport so the OPs DD can attend a breakfast club. It's highly unlikely they would fund transport for the daughter especially not before the start time of the normal school day.

The OP can only bring her daughter in I'd her partner is off work. He does the early shift so he can be home to meet son's taxi.

The school is open at 8am for breakfast club, they're not opening early just did the OPs DD. The logistics just don't work and the notion if she really cared she'd make it happen is incredibly spiteful

Gancanny · 30/09/2020 19:41

Did you choose your son's school knowing you couldnt get him there yourself, or was there no choice

The son is in specialist provision so the school allocated will be the one best able to meet his needs rather than the one that is closest.

I'm sorry I assumed that the teachers (who IMO are in general professional caring people) have seen that the op's DD benefits from being in school earlier to help her settle. Usually what's good for the teacher/class is good for the child too. I'm sure you've all got your horror stories about schools and teachers, but I believe in general they want wants best for their charges, especially in primary school.

This is based on your experiences. If there a thread where parents of children with SEN and/or disabilities could tell stories about the professionals they have encountered, including teachers, I can guarantee some of the stories would leave you shocked.

I don't think re-routing a taxi is necessarily inconvenient, it depends if anyone else is sharing the taxi (often they are not shared) and that second pupil and their family might be fine with it.

Most LAs are not willing to reroute taxis. They use taxi companies for the transport but its not actually a taxi in the traditional sense, it's school transport and it picks up from/drops off at home. The LA would be very unlikely to reroute the transport to fit around an early start for a sibling.

I don't understand what's so inflammatory about this point of view?

Because the early start is not in the best interests of the child, is only being offered as it is the most convenient thing for school, and there are other solutions that they could try instead.

Bupkis · 30/09/2020 19:41

@Sirzy

Exactly Lego.

thankfully DS schools shows how it should be, they funded support needed (including paying for a private Ed psych) and worked to make him part of the school. Now he is looking like being able to go to mainstream secondary (still with full 1-1) whereas without the work that has been done by school he would have ended up needing specialist secondary and the only one which would be able to meet all his needs would be a very expensive independent.

Parents shouldn’t have to fight to get schools (or local authority) to provide basic things to support them

It does my heart good to hear of schools getting it right @Sirzy. I'm so glad for you and your ds.

We have had a nightmare with ds's school...leading to ds becoming very ill, and in our struggle to get the right support, our relationship with the school has completely broken down. I just pray we have done enough to get the LEA to consider specialist for secondary, I'm not sure I have much more fight in me.

apapuchi · 30/09/2020 19:43

Sorry you're having a stressful time OP, I have been there and done that with school transport and school too and it's difficult and hard to see a way to suit everyone while keeping the child in question and their needs at the centre of it all.

I would suggest you speak to your council's home to school transport team. I know their level of understanding, helpfulness and ability (or will) to accommodate vary hugely from one to the other, but it might be worth giving it a shot.

Our LA have - over the years - picked and dropped off variously at a childminder's house and workplace after much arguing and justification. I know they are difficult when there is a difference in distance. Thankfully, we are in a position now with work etc. where he can be picked up and dropped off at home. They might also agree to switch his place in the pick up schedule but I appreciate this might be distressing for him and might also cause difficulties for other parents and carers who have made their plans around their child's current approximate timings. He may be able to be picked up a bit earlier or later, of course this is case dependent and you shouldn't really have to ask for this as your daughter's school should be accommodating the changes they see fit, but it might be worth a try.

Alternatively, I'd also be asking the same team about your daughter being eligible for transport, if you think she'd cope with it. Having an EHCP makes it an easier request to make, but as the situation stands her additional needs should qualify her and you can also state your son's needs and disruption to his routine and school life as an extra reason for the request when they ask for additional information on the form (or when you speak to them informally, beforehand). It's all worth a try IF you think either of these things would be acceptable and suitable for your child(ren).

In terms of the school, it does sound like they're trying to find ways to help her settle and that is commendable - leaving aside the logistical difficulties for you. However, the part time schooling and unconventional methods are only OK if they're acceptable to you and working for your DD.

Wishing you luck, and I hope the advice and support you've had outshine the ignorant and sometimes weirdly jealous comments. It's a really hard one to understand unless you've been there, but those of us who have get you.

AGoatAteIt · 30/09/2020 19:44

The logistics just don't work and the notion if she really cared she'd make it happen is incredibly spiteful

Agree wholeheartedly.

gamerchick · 30/09/2020 19:44

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Did you choose your son's school knowing you couldnt get him there yourself, or was there no choice (eg because it's a specialist SEN provision, or because the council allocated you this school & you couldnt get in to one nearer your home)?

If you had no choice about it (I assume that since council are funding taxis) then the school & council need to work with you to make it work (eg bend rules to collect your son from daughters school instead).

When you say you "don't drive" do you mean you can't drive, or you can but dont have a car atm or something?

If you can drive, can you try to make plans to get or borrow a car?

Just on a roll here Grin we can now add ignorance about choosing special schools closer to home. Coz like there's a massive choice in the fuckers and they're so easy to get into.
Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 19:45

Glad the sensible Calvary are here! Love you lot of fellow sn mums Mumsnet vipers Flowers

Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 19:45

Ffs cavalry bloody phone

Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 19:46

Cavalry

emmapemma91 · 30/09/2020 19:52

My son went to the closest school who were able to meet his SEMH needs Hmm

OP posts:
Onceuponatimethen · 30/09/2020 19:53

Yep exactly op and fair enough too

As anyone with dc or family who need a special school setting know it’s not like they are on every corner Hmm

Jellycatspyjamas · 30/09/2020 19:57

I’m loving the assumption that an 8am start is the best thing for a 6 year old child - the starting point for me is, whether the OP can get her child there or not, it’s not necessarily in her best interests.

It might have “worked” before but I’d love to know how they measured that success. Was it that the child was physically able to be compliant in class, or that she was genuinely calm and happy to be there. I strongly doubt it was the latter.

StatisticalSense · 30/09/2020 19:58

@gamerchick
Councils can (and will if pushed hard enough) change SEN transport where the current transport isn't working for the child in question, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be asked to change it when it isn't working for the child's sibling. Children with autism need to be able to feel relaxed in the morning which is simply not possible with the current situation due to the lack of time between the taxi pick up and start of the school day creating an artificial rush to get to school that is needlessly stressful. Furthermore it is likely that a child who is anxious of school would spend unstructured time before school thinking about the negatives of school so it is essential that unstructured time is removed from the morning routine before getting to school as much as possible which means the time of her brother leaving needs to be more fixed than anything in a 10 minute span.

Bupkis · 30/09/2020 20:04

[quote StatisticalSense]@gamerchick
Councils can (and will if pushed hard enough) change SEN transport where the current transport isn't working for the child in question, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be asked to change it when it isn't working for the child's sibling. Children with autism need to be able to feel relaxed in the morning which is simply not possible with the current situation due to the lack of time between the taxi pick up and start of the school day creating an artificial rush to get to school that is needlessly stressful. Furthermore it is likely that a child who is anxious of school would spend unstructured time before school thinking about the negatives of school so it is essential that unstructured time is removed from the morning routine before getting to school as much as possible which means the time of her brother leaving needs to be more fixed than anything in a 10 minute span.[/quote]
You say this with such certainty...but you do not know what aspect of the start to school, causes the op's dd2 such distress.

Jellycatspyjamas · 30/09/2020 20:04

It’s not possible to be more fixed - the transport isn’t sitting round the corner watching a clock - they need to get there having picked up any other kids. The 10 minute window allows for delays, traffic problems, the usual logistics of providing transport to multiple people at multiple pick up points.

And I’m not seeing the rushed, chaotic morning the others are seeing. At worst the taxi arrives at 8.25 and the OP then has a 20 minute walk to school which starts at 8.45.

DobbinReturns · 30/09/2020 20:08

The LA is under no obligation to facilitate the OP's DD attend a breakfast club. Even for argument's sake the LA was willing to accommodate this, have you considered the OPs son may not be able to cope with the change of arrangements to walking to his sister's school and being picked up there? He is also a child with SEND. Furthermore, the son being distressed on the walk to his sister's school would impact on his sister's ability to settle, thus exacerbating her negative feelings towards school.

gamerchick · 30/09/2020 20:13

[quote StatisticalSense]@gamerchick
Councils can (and will if pushed hard enough) change SEN transport where the current transport isn't working for the child in question, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be asked to change it when it isn't working for the child's sibling. Children with autism need to be able to feel relaxed in the morning which is simply not possible with the current situation due to the lack of time between the taxi pick up and start of the school day creating an artificial rush to get to school that is needlessly stressful. Furthermore it is likely that a child who is anxious of school would spend unstructured time before school thinking about the negatives of school so it is essential that unstructured time is removed from the morning routine before getting to school as much as possible which means the time of her brother leaving needs to be more fixed than anything in a 10 minute span.[/quote]
Yanno I'm reading that and all I'm hearing is air escaping out of a bottom. I can't even be arsed to take it to bits.

Please don't tell me what an autistic kid needs. I live and breathe the bugger day in and out. Hmm

Jellycatspyjamas · 30/09/2020 20:16

Yanno I'm reading that and all I'm hearing is air escaping out of a bottom

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Italiangreyhound · 30/09/2020 20:16

emmapemma91 I really feel for you. You are in a difficult situation and the ridiculous views of people who have not experienced this kind of thing is pretty sad.

Would a later start help your little girl?

Would that be an option?

My dd is autistic and I can't imagine a lot of extra school would have helped her. They did offer a bit of an early start (like 15 minutes not half an hour) to help her and we managed it a bit but they had laid on special activities for her in the morning.

converseandjeans · 30/09/2020 20:17

This will sound harsh but you either need to learn to drive or DP gets a job where he can start later in the day.
It sounds like school are actually trying to help her settle in so she's calm before the others start piling in.
I can't see your son's taxi being able to be rescheduled. Howcome the children are at different schools? Obviously it would be best if they were in same place.

Sirzy · 30/09/2020 20:17

gamer perfectly put!

gamerchick · 30/09/2020 20:19

@converseandjeans

This will sound harsh but you either need to learn to drive or DP gets a job where he can start later in the day. It sounds like school are actually trying to help her settle in so she's calm before the others start piling in. I can't see your son's taxi being able to be rescheduled. Howcome the children are at different schools? Obviously it would be best if they were in same place.
Yanno, there's a little button at the bottom of the OPs posts that lets you read all of them before you post. Might help Wink
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