School forcing 8am start for my SEN girl?

[emmapemma91]

So I’m having quite a lot of bother with my little girls school. She’s not settling in very well and becoming very distressed when going into school and can become aggressive.
She’s waiting on assessment for possible Autism. She’s 6 and in year 2.

She’s on a reduced timetable at the minute but the school are forcibly telling me they want her in at 8am to give her time to settle before her class come in at 8.45. I’ve told them each time my sons school taxi comes sometime between 8.15 - 8.25 and I can’t get her there, chase her around while she tries to run away, then carry her into school then be back in time for my sons taxi. Yet every day they say the same thing, she hasn’t settled and needs to be in 8am. If I miss his taxi I can’t get him to school as I don’t drive and it’s quite far away.

Is there any solution? I’m sick of fighting with the school to support my daughter.

@MoonJelly

So Dave's mummy asked a nice judge at the royal Courts of justice in London for help.

The nice judge decreed that because Mr Ego was prepaired to go to such lengths to protect his untrue beliefs, that Dave should go to a £17k a year private school plus taxi fair.

Mr Ego was upset that Dave was being educated and wouldnt just drop dead with his mother. But he slept soundly knowing it had cost £17k of government funding to stop the 6 weekly cost of £65.

Go Dave's Mum! @Legoandloldolls, presumably Mr Ego's little ego-trip also cost the lucky local authority a few thousand in legal fees as well? Silly of them not to tell Mr Ego to stop being stupid, really.

Because in most cases local authorities are even worse. Where I live something like 80% of parents who end up taking the LA to tribunal to fight for the support they need end up winning.

We didn’t have to take them to tribunal but it did take 4 months (nothing compared to some!) of backwards and forwarding to get them to quantify the full time 1-1 even though me, school and every professional involved said it was needed.

I haven't read the whole thread, but do you have a neighbour who could sit with your DS until the taxi arrived?
Or a childminder/family/friend (if you have anyone close)?

I don't know what type of work your dp does and whether they could adjust the time they start work so they can help with the childcare?

I think re-routing the taxi would be the best idea.
You say that's not possible, but have you tried contacting the council? Your dds school might be able to email the council to explain its needed in order to help your dd attend school.

You might not like the idea of your dd going in early, it sounds to me that the school are really trying to help your dd.
You sound like you are against the idea, therefore you aren't willing to try and find a solution (I've only read your posts/replies).

I personally think this is a great opportunity for your dd and her education and wellbeing, and it would be a shame if you couldn't try your best to try and make it happen.

@allofthetings you CAN NOT 're route council transport for special schools.

Extending an autistic child's day by 45 minutes is not going to help anyone. Her needs to be met within the school day.

You definitely don't need support from a school to get an EHCNA. Although I'm sure it helps.

Ds's old school did not support our application at all and they told us if we made one they would tell the LA it wasn't necessary. That's exactly what they did. They deliberately filled the form in incorrectly, left pages blank and wrote 'don't know' and 'no idea' They also stated in bold type it was not necessary.

The LA still agreed to assess Ds.

Yes, you're absolutely right, Puxsutawney, school support isn't essential for getting assessed for an EHC Plan.

Which reminds me - OP, you said you didn't have supporting paperwork. You don't necessarily need it: the whole point of an assessment is that the assessment, if it is done properly, will provide the necessary reports and information. The fact that your child is on a reduced timetable is very strong evidence by itself. Do you have letters or emails from the school saying why that was necessary?

Oh my god this thread is depressing

Just to repeat op YANBU

@allofthetings the school are not trying at all, the want the DD in early because it's convenient for them and what is convenient for the school is not always convenient for the wider family or in the best interests of the child in question.

The thing is, they ARE making reasonable adjustments to cater to your daughter's needs. They have identified she struggles with the transition between home and school and have put an adjustment in place in order to better suit her needs.
It is massively unfortunate that the plan doesn't suit your circumstances but its not the school' s responsibility to remedy that. It's a sad fact that SEN provision is woefully underfunded and understaffed. Bringing your daughter in at the usual time and having her kick off as she can't cope (when that's already identified as a trigger point) means that someone is pulled from their responsibilities to manage the meltdown and she gets sent home. The cycle repeats itself indefinitely. By continuing the cycle, the needs of your DC are put to the side as there's never any opportunity to address the reactive behaviour. Getting her in early is in her best interests it would seem.
Sadly, this is something you're going to have to work out. Easier said than done but the school seem to be putting her development and needs first, which is a real positive

Keep as much communication about reduced timetables and starting times by email to keep a trail to use as evidence, even if it’s just a “following this mornings conversation I can confirm we discussed....” type thing. That can then be used to show the LA the problems and what school is (or isn’t!) doing

*There are a dozen different ways to support children into school that don’t involve the child being there 45 mins early

Really? I’d be very interested to hear you suggestions, could you list them please?*

@NailsNeedDoing

They could establish what’s causing the distress, eg is it leaving mum, leaving home, the busyness of the playground, difficulties with transition into school, anxiety about the classroom or school setting.

They could then:-

1 agree a later start time so she doesn’t have to face the busyness of the playground
2 agree a set morning routine for arrival that is consistent and predictable
3 let her use a different/quiet entrance
4 let mum accompany her to the class door
5 provide a transition activity (eg my DD is allowed to play a board game quietly with her desk partner during registration)
6 they could provide a named support person to meet her and bring her to class
7 they could provide a way for her to communicate she’s struggling (Eg a hand signal or key word) so staff catch her before she’s frightened and dysregulated
8 they could provide a quiet room where she can get her herself together and come to class when she’s calm
9 They could provide an older child as a buddy to befriend and look out for her - maybe modelling the start of the school day
10 they could talk to her and ask what might help her
11 they could let her bring a toy or transitional object from home to settle her
12 they could schedule a less structured start to the day (eg an art or creative task) and she could join when she’s ready

Would you like me to continue? None of these would cost money, but they demand that the school treat this child like a valued pupil who is struggling, recognise the start of the day is triggering her and show some care and some flexibility.

It’s honestly not that difficult. I imagine if she does arrive at 8 she’s dumped in with the breakfast club til she runs out of steam. Not remotely an acceptable solution for a small child.

Considering you've admitted that when you've managed to get her in early it's helped, if you really want to help her you need to just find a way around it. Is this taxi really the one and only mode of transport from your son? What about if you moved house, the taxi would presumably go to your new address even if it's not on their current route? If not, how would you get him to school?
You need to be more flexible and do whatever it takes to get her there on time. You've accepted that it's helpful for her, so you need to move things around and do what you can. It's inconvenient, I get that, but it doesn't seem as though you've even liaised with sons school at all to see what can be done. It's just a case of "sorry doesnt suit me, can't do it"

@allofthetings

I haven't read the whole thread, but do you have a neighbour who could sit with your DS until the taxi arrived? Or a childminder/family/friend (if you have anyone close)?

I don't know what type of work your dp does and whether they could adjust the time they start work so they can help with the childcare?

I think re-routing the taxi would be the best idea.
You say that's not possible, but have you tried contacting the council? Your dds school might be able to email the council to explain its needed in order to help your dd attend school.

You might not like the idea of your dd going in early, it sounds to me that the school are really trying to help your dd.
You sound like you are against the idea, therefore you aren't willing to try and find a solution (I've only read your posts/replies).

I personally think this is a great opportunity for your dd and her education and wellbeing, and it would be a shame if you couldn't try your best to try and make it happen.

I’m sorry what? You actually think that school transport should reroute a taxi that presumably picks up more than 1 child, thereby inconveniencing more than just the OP, (probably- I planned the school run for other kid around school transport for my youngest who was picked up with between 3 and 8 other children) because another school want a child to come in at 8am to convenience themselves (somehow)? It certainly won’t be convenient for the OP. I highly doubt her daughter will benefit from this strategy either.

You’re right @Onceuponatimethen this thread is depressing.

Easier said than done but the school seem to be putting her development and needs first, which is a real positive

What nonsense, the early start suits the school because breakfast club is on and staff are around anyway - nothing remotely about her developmental needs. She was in school 2 days before they cut her timetable, so they don’t need to meet her needs in class as much. There’s very little about that “solution” which is in any way child centred.

It's just a case of "sorry doesnt suit me, can't do it"

Well what else can she say? There's plenty of things the school could be doing differently that would help her. This one isn't suitable, so they will have to try something else.

Utterly ridiculous suggestion from the school. They should be working with you to find the best support and solutions for your child.
Just keep saying, sorry that is impossible for us so we need to find a workable solution. They can't force you and they need to support your child with settling in.

@theantsgomarchin

Considering you've admitted that when you've managed to get her in early it's helped, if you really want to help her you need to just find a way around it. Is this taxi really the one and only mode of transport from your son? What about if you moved house, the taxi would presumably go to your new address even if it's not on their current route? If not, how would you get him to school? You need to be more flexible and do whatever it takes to get her there on time. You've accepted that it's helpful for her, so you need to move things around and do what you can. It's inconvenient, I get that, but it doesn't seem as though you've even liaised with sons school at all to see what can be done. It's just a case of "sorry doesnt suit me, can't do it"

The OP doesn’t drive, her son’s school is too far and he presumably needs to be there at the same time as his sister needs to be at her school.

If the OP’s LA is anything like the 2 I’ve lived in, then yes, when you move house the transport people switch the child to another route best they can. But the OP isn’t moving house, unless I’ve missed that bit so no, the transport people can’t/won’t swap things round to suit the whim of staff members at another school with a child they don’t even transport.

Basically the schools suggestion isn’t possible in the OP’s circumstances as she can’t be in 2 places at once, her partner needs to work to you know, keep them all housed and stuff so can’t just jack it all in to help with the school run every day so another solution needs to be found.

@AGoatAteIt
I suspect that rerouting the taxi or providing the son with alternative transport is going to be part of the solution whether or not the OP accepts the advice to get her to school for 8am (for which I see no reason as to why she should). Whatever the school puts into place is much less likely to work if the daughter is unnecessarily anxious when she arrives on site due to the lack of a fixed morning routine and the limited time between the pick up and her needing to be at school causing her to have to rush about (and presumably be sat ready to leave waiting for the taxi at least a couple of times a week).

The school day starts at 8.45am. starting at 8am is not a reasonable adjustment and all the goady, pious posts are an abomination.

@emmapemma91

I would rather they use their resources to support her when she comes in at a normal time, as I’m very unsure what they would like me to do when I can’t be in two places at once.

School transport can only pick up from our home address. My partner works early shifts so isn’t home in the mornings.

School Transport can pick up at a differnt place at your Request as long as you speak too Council\ or whoever sort it

I would bring her in for 8:45 and stop engaging with them on this issue. If they mention it again just say "as discussed, that doesn't work for me."

Even though the disruption of this is causing her to become distressed and aggressive, putting other people at risk?

Did you choose your son's school knowing you couldnt get him there yourself, or was there no choice (eg because it's a specialist SEN provision, or because the council allocated you this school & you couldnt get in to one nearer your home)?

If you had no choice about it (I assume that since council are funding taxis) then the school & council need to work with you to make it work (eg bend rules to collect your son from daughters school instead).

When you say you "don't drive" do you mean you can't drive, or you can but dont have a car atm or something?

If you can drive, can you try to make plans to get or borrow a car?

I'm sorry I assumed that the teachers (who IMO are in general professional caring people) have seen that the op's DD benefits from being in school earlier to help her settle.
Usually what's good for the teacher/class is good for the child too.
I'm sure you've all got your horror stories about schools and teachers, but I believe in general they want wants best for their charges, especially in primary school.

I don't think re-routing a taxi is necessarily inconvenient, it depends if anyone else is sharing the taxi (often they are not shared) and that second pupil and their family might be fine with it.

The Op's DD seems to benefit from being in school earlier, it's not punishment, why not give it a go and see if it helps her?

I don't understand what's so inflammatory about this point of view?

@Y0ubetterwerk I’m afraid this is quite an ignorant comment

All children with special needs have the right, in law, to the support they need. This was decided by parliament, who are elected.

So children are entitled when assessed in need of an EHCP to the support that says they should have. That might be a one to one or whatever.

Op is under absolutely no obligation to try to make an arrangement work that conflicts with her other child’s school transport.

I appreciate OP’s child doesn’t have an echo yet, but that isn’t for wanting trying on her part!!