To destroy my son's phone?

[WeakandWobbly]

My 13yo ds has had a mobile for exactly one year. He has ASD. Over the course of the year he has become more and more fixated on it. He rarely has calls or online chats with friends. He gets up as early as 6.30am to play space games and watch YouTube bloggers talking about rockets, which is his special interest.
He gave up scouts, and he gave up drama club. Now he has no hobbies, doesn't leave the house at all on weekends, , and won't help out around the house. 99% of the arguments and fights (and I mean him shoving me, kicking me, shouting abuse at me, breaking things) occurs when my dh and I try to enforce boundaries on usage.
We think we have been very reasonable in that he can have his phone before school, he is banned - by the school-- from having it in school so he doesn't take it. In the evening he will not engage with anyone nicely until it's 7.30pm when the phone has to be handed in. He often hides it, refuses to hand it over, keeps the password secret and so on. Our family life has, been destroyed... And don't get me started on lockdown hell
My DD age 11 also has a phone, but we don't have any problems with her.
This weekend was particularly bad where ds was kicking me and spitting at me, calling me a lunatic, threw water in my face, because my efforts to control phone usage he sees as bullying.
I was thinking of asking the local constabulary to pop in and 'seize' his phone and destroy it. That way he cannot target us parents over it.
YABU: kids need to have a phone
YANBU: chuck the thing out and get your sanity back

Sorry I don't know how to do the voting buttons on my phone. I'm fuming too much!!

Short term pain for long term gain

Heroic effort, well done

Ah cheers man.

Sounds like PDA

My NT son has been though similar, but not as extreme. Too much gaming time and his behaviour deteriorated quickly. We had to keep a careful eye on it. Our saving grace was the fact he was also very sporty so he spent some evenings and weekend days out of the house playing a team sport.

Can you try and find something else he can focus on to fill the gap?
Also - your control over this is a temporary thing; as they get older it becomes harder to maintain. So finding him another focus might become even more important long term.

Don't involve the Police.
If he has ASD he may be frightened: he needs to see them as allies.

I have two kids with ASD (aged 16 and 13)
Obsessions are a problem.
The phone IS a problem.
Fixed and rigid interests - it's one of the Triad of impairments
BUT... it depends what they are using it for?
For mine it is a lifeline to the outside world / learning, not TikTok crap.
It can also be a source of social bullying so I pull rank over that.

@WeakandWobbly
That it's the better YTers is hopefully a good thing. Scott seems quite approachable. It might be worth contacting him via Twitter and asking for help. You're unlikely to be the only person with a son that obsesses over space and could do with getting outside and taking a break.

I can think of lots of directions your son's interests might be channeled in (astronomy, amateur radio, etc.), but with Covid there's not a lot of clubs/societies meeting face-to-face - they're all doing the online thing.

Remove it, but don't waste police time, just parent yourself.

But I agree, if you tolerate aggression not only is your life miserable but you are not teaching him what the outside world will tolerate either so you have to intervene at that point.
Natural consequences.

Of course you need to take the phone off him.

Honestly I wonder how your son would feel if you smacked him back and spat on him? Completely unacceptable behaviour from him.

I have had many mobile phone issues with my son (not ASD afaik but distinctly oppositional) too and I sometimes wonder if just stopping fighting about it would help. Most 13 year olds are on their phone most of the time and many of them give up their old interests. Mine at 14 hates me because I turn his off (iphone controls) at 9.30. It's really difficult and I don't have an easy answer but I think destroying the phone probably isn't the way forward though you absolutely must lay down some consequences for violence and get out of his way so he can't do it.

Download the qustodio app and agree very clear rules with him, in writing. He gets 30 minutes screen time in the evening AFTER he has done chores and engaged with his family. Then the parents of the app will kick in and so his access. After a weeks or two of him getting used to the new boundaries maybe give him half an hour in the weekend mornings too and that's it.

Qustodio , you can say he can have 15 minutes of you tube, 15 minutes of game and unlimited access to phone, text and any home work app. And providing you set it up correctly that's it. You get regular updates about usage, trigger words he may search and a break down of what he has done and where he has visited.

What has helped with mine is very methodically discussing what he needs to do for his wellness and setting up a to-do list together. Without it, he will act very similar with tech as your DS. It helps when we use the tech for other things and giving him something else to do. As a pp said, there needs to be a known replacement for the screens.

So, with my DS, one thing was he needs to do something physical. We discussed what type of fitness was he interested in, he wants to get faster, so now does the Couch-to-5k app 3-4 days a week first thing in the morning. We do similar with housework, homework (we use a pomodoro timer for this with this which has really helped), other studying (asking things he wanted to learn about, and now we have coding, an IT technician course, and similar as part of his routine), and so on. A lot of this also involves using tech, and often what doesn't use tech ends up having his phone as a music player, but it's helped to give him the structure he needs to handle the obsessive habits he can get into.

Socializing is taking more effort, he keeps liking ideas but not following through yet, and we have to have a backup when he's not well enough to do the things on his list. Last week, he was given the choice of heading back to bed or reading until lunch time because otherwise he would have just jumped on an electronic and I would have gotten annoyed about doing that if he's too unwell for anything on his list, but it has made major improvements.

Also, him agreeing to use Google Family Link to track what apps he's using and for how long. Whenever he gets new phone game, I give him a week, and then we look through the time used and decide whether he needs external support through the app to help him to do other things. He's only needed it on a couple (youtube being one of them, but I assure him that that is a rabbithole for many people, these things are designed to be this way).

My oldest has been significantly stronger than me since he was 12, so I entirely get how bad it can get. It sounds really rough, but also something a lot of us have dealt with so I hope some of the advice on this thread can help.

What's the difference to being glued to a TV all the time and being glued to a device? Obviously it's not healthy to stop getting on with life, and hobbies etc. but you're making him feel like him relaxing with his phone is an issue, just because it's a different use of downtime to the rest of the family - I don't get this? If it's the taking away his downtime (however he uses it) is what is causing the anger issues, then let him have the phone! Maybe talk to him about the family unit - you eat together with no TV or devices - you go out together (even just for a walk in the woods) with no TV (obviously) or devices and when it's downtime he can have his phone - think about it like that.
My son has never really been a TV fan, like so many (if not all) of his friends are - he's only 7 and plays (very complicated) games on his device when he's relaxing at home - we don't mind as we gave him the choice between TV or computer - he's calm and happy and he is thinking and learning, unlike TV that shuts your brain off.
Rethink the issues and whether they're stemming from the actual device, or when it's the removal of the device. He needs to learn about addiction.
Good luck!

Can you see if your local asd support/camhs/ social services/sen support offer parenting courses..

Parenting strategies for children with ASD can be different for NT children...especially as they head through adolescence.
You need to have strategies for both uou and DH..

My DSis did a managing violent responses courses...as my niece was getting increasingly violent/stronger as she grew up (broke her ribs) ...made a massive difference ...she had in common with lots of parents of children with asd been sent on lots of parenting courses but this one has been vital

This is not something for an outside agency to sort...they maybe able to help but something you need to research and understand.... his school may know of something local

I think I would turn off the wi-fi with no discussion at all, although I understand that there may be a violent response.

Are you and your DP frightened of him? If so, could you make sure that you are together when he realises that the wi-fi is off and that your other DC is safely out of the way?

Difficult as it will be, I don't think I would allow him to defy me like this because , if you do, you will have no control at all as he gets older and does exactly as he wants because he has everyone else cowering.

My 13 yo son also has asd, the last six months have been so hard for kids with additional needs. I think it may make his behaviour worse if you take such a hardline approach. I think it is hard for parents of neurotypicals to make constructive suggestions.
It has probably been his coping mechanism for the last few months.
It could be he has demand avoidance as part of his issues so the more you ask of him the more determined he is not to comply, I know our son is like this.
We have had outbursts / violence from our son too and it is important to remember that it is not personal and is down to some underlying distress that they do not understand or cant communicate

I have to say, the dictatorial tactics some people are encouraging here have never worked with my child with ASD. Never, not once.
A gentler, less confrontational approach works far better, in our case at least.

Try taking the cable not the phone.
So he has no charge.
Also you can cut his internet amount with his provider and lock him out of the house internet.

I did hear a programme where a family had a son with severe lifelimiting disabilities. He was gaming all the time which they thought was a useles way to spend time. But when he died so many of the gamers got in touch with them and told them how much their son had meant to them. He'd made real online friends and even had online girlfriends. They realised then just how much this community meant to him and how it was his social world.

If your son is chatting online could it be filling a role like that for him, especially if he has social difficulties in real life? As others have
said, it could also be his stress relief. TBH I use mumsnet like that.
If I have had a shit day and its all too much I come on here for half an hour and it takes me out of myself!

Use an App as an objective time management tool. 'Our Pact'
is a good one.

Wishing you well OP. I also have a teen with ASD, although very mild - (the ASD that is, not the teen!) Nevertheless his reliance on screens is evident, and we/he has learned to manage his behaviour, when switching them off, by strict routine, which he understands/can work with.

We have been able to restrict, rather than ban, but are v aware that the screen is a drug for him. It gives him great pleasure, but damages relationships, health, education. If he were addicted to heroin, I know that we wouldn't have allowed him just a bit, now and then. Reluctantly, we have allowed him some screen time, in the hope of him learning to manage it himself, but at 17, he is still pretty reliant on me reminding him of his timetable - phone/screen for up to 2 hours on return from school. He then does homework/eats/socialises, and finally can have it for an hour, if everything else is done.

In lockdown, I allowed an hour in bed with it, before starting the day, but again, had to introduce that as a routine. Routine is the one thing which makes him feel safe, which is as powerful as the screen.

HTH

@neversayalways

I did hear a programme where a family had a son with severe lifelimiting disabilities. He was gaming all the time which they thought was a useles way to spend time. But when he died so many of the gamers got in touch with them and told them how much their son had meant to them. He'd made real online friends and even had online girlfriends. They realised then just how much this community meant to him and how it was his social world.

If your son is chatting online could it be filling a role like that for him, especially if he has social difficulties in real life? As others have
said, it could also be his stress relief. TBH I use mumsnet like that.
If I have had a shit day and its all too much I come on here for half an hour and it takes me out of myself!

I remember that story too. RIP Mats Steen. www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-47064773

For goodness sake everyone have some sympathy & real constructive advice for this mum. She sounds like she is at the end of her tether & doesn't know what to do next. I unfortunately do not have children, therefore I don't think I can give her any advice. Please just be kind to her. All I can do is send her hugs.

I remember reading about Mats Steen too, that was really quite sad but lovely.

OP, I get the phone/screens addiction, we have one of those teens too though without the violence, which must make things so much more difficult. As he's getting older we're trying to get him to build his own strategies, we've always had limits on screen time but are relaxing that now with the condition that all screens are off by 9:30 and Xbox is limited during the day. Is you DS open to having conversations around the length of time he's on screens? Would he be up for helping design some sort of timetable that includes screen free time, with replacement activities (or sleep) in there instead?

Alternatively, would you be willing to have a whole family digital detox if needed, if he does need to go cold turkey to break habits? Hard but something to consider that wouldn't single him out. We've gone on holiday a couple of times to somewhere with no signal, TV or WiFi and it's been good for all of us, would that be an option for a detox?

OP - There are some online and FB groups for parents of children (with and without various diagnosis) with violent and challenging behaviour. The SEND VCB Project was set up by Yvonne Newbold - she runs some workshops and courses that can really help. You will also get more sympathy and understanding and practical suggestions than you would on a general parenting board. Another group - Connective Parenting using NVR - was set up by Sarah Fisher and again has workshops and courses to help but this one focuses on a specific parenting technique to try and address the aggression.

Parenting teens is hard. Parenting kids with additional needs is hard. Put the two together and it can feel like every day is an endless battle that you think you'll never win.
You can - with help and support. My youngest was horrific. I wont repeat on a public board some of the things that happened but 'taking his phone away' and 'being firm' and 'parenting him myself' was never going to help. However, with time support and understanding he is now a lot better. We still have flash points (funnily enough - he is fixated on his phone too and any restrictions or limits imposed trigger defensive behaviour) but I now know how to handle these better so we're less likely to reach violent or abusive behaviour.

Good luck.