To destroy my son's phone?

[WeakandWobbly]

My 13yo ds has had a mobile for exactly one year. He has ASD. Over the course of the year he has become more and more fixated on it. He rarely has calls or online chats with friends. He gets up as early as 6.30am to play space games and watch YouTube bloggers talking about rockets, which is his special interest.
He gave up scouts, and he gave up drama club. Now he has no hobbies, doesn't leave the house at all on weekends, , and won't help out around the house. 99% of the arguments and fights (and I mean him shoving me, kicking me, shouting abuse at me, breaking things) occurs when my dh and I try to enforce boundaries on usage.
We think we have been very reasonable in that he can have his phone before school, he is banned - by the school-- from having it in school so he doesn't take it. In the evening he will not engage with anyone nicely until it's 7.30pm when the phone has to be handed in. He often hides it, refuses to hand it over, keeps the password secret and so on. Our family life has, been destroyed... And don't get me started on lockdown hell
My DD age 11 also has a phone, but we don't have any problems with her.
This weekend was particularly bad where ds was kicking me and spitting at me, calling me a lunatic, threw water in my face, because my efforts to control phone usage he sees as bullying.
I was thinking of asking the local constabulary to pop in and 'seize' his phone and destroy it. That way he cannot target us parents over it.
YABU: kids need to have a phone
YANBU: chuck the thing out and get your sanity back

Sorry I don't know how to do the voting buttons on my phone. I'm fuming too much!!

Sorry I thought you were joking about the police coming to take it away. YABU to ask the police to do it obviously.

YANBU to remove it though.

As hard as it is if you take it away all together you loose any bargaining tool you have so try to persist with resonable usage. If you take it away it wont solve the problem the problem will just shift to something else.

Don't destroy the phone though OP. That's a world you don't want to open up to him or your stuff will be at risk to make it fair.

I agree you should take the phone away. The fall out might be a nightmare, but sounds like it is a nightmare anyway. Good luck

(Even if you could get the police to come, he would still blame you for contacting them I don't think it will stop him blaming you-sorry)

[quote WeakandWobbly]@NekoShiro he would absolutely go for his sister, or even my phone. But it's a risk worth taking, as I'm fed up of my life in its current state with him and this phone. I will step up, be the parent, and change the game. Thanks for your advice guys, harsh as some of it is. I will call for help when he turns nasty. Which he will 😕[/quote]
@WeakandWobbly I think this is the right approach...good luck, it sounds really tough

I'm just here to say the comments about do your parenting are extremely unreasonable. You are setting boundaries, and clearly your parenting is working well for your daughter. I have a relative with undiagnosed asd. And his lack of respect and insolence when it came to technology was something else. His parents are amazing. Good luck, what ever you do. And stay strong.

Do you have a plan for what he will do when he doesn’t have it? It sounds like he will need some serious entertaining to keep him even close to calm. Leaving him sat with nothing probably won’t help the issue and make increase the obsessing.

Can you have a stance whereby he earns time on his phone rather than remove it altogether?

Have you thought about putting an app like Family Link on his phone - we have it on our kids’ phones....we have set times and controls on the phones and rather than take the phone off them in the event of bad behaviour you can just shut down their access to their device from yours...would at least save you the fight of it being handed over...

Thanks @gamerchick it's horrible. Most people have no clue what it's like. For background I am medically qualified and have done many parenting and autism courses. It doesn't stop me from being a human and fearing for my life and property when he goes wild with rage.
He is calm and approachable about 10% of the time, so I will have a conversation before I take it away. The rest of the time it's like reading on eggshells. The social services are on the case, but we're on a waiting list for help 😣

@gamerchick

Sounds like you have extensive experience of parenting a teen with autism.

As it happens. I'm also autistic myself if it makes any difference.

Out of interest, what do you do when yours stands tit to tit squaring up to you and you have a split second to get a reaction right before they lamp you one?

This has never happened so I can't comment here. I suspect you have posted the 'what about' in response to something I said? Maybe the bit where the parents need to parent and not the police? Or is it something I am missing? Because yes, parents do have to parent. I absolutely would call the police if my teenager started 'lamping me one' over their mobile phone. What I would not do would be to call the police and ask them to remove and destroy a mobile phone because of some sort of lack of engagement with the family for a few hours a day. That's absolutely normal for autistic people.

Take his phone. Cancel the contract if necessary. Let him earn it back for good behaviour. Apply the same usage restrictions to all your D.C. Don’t call the police to parent your children.

I'm hoping to have a civil conversation with him, I'm hoping he'll do his homework, I'm hoping he will speak to his sister, who he ignores from one day to the other.
I'm beginning to suspect that my expectations of teenagers is too high!!

As kindly as I can, your expectations of your autistic teenager are too too high. You can't force social interaction with a sibling. Yeah it would be lovely if we were all taking part in 'happy families' but ultimately your DS needs are different.

If these are online games, can you not switch the WiFi off at certain times? Is there a way that you can control which devices can use the WiFi also? Not sure if that would get him off the phone but might give you some control?

I think you are going to have to have a no phones until 16 rule. You will have to work something out with your dd, but it might be better for her not to have it so young too. And parents might need to model staying off their phones (have you watched the Social Dilemma? Your son might find it interesting, it might reinforce your point about needing to take it away because he can't self regulate.)

Well that's one way to ensure your DS has no respect for the law or police.

[quote emptyshelvesagain]@gamerchick

Sounds like you have extensive experience of parenting a teen with autism.

As it happens. I'm also autistic myself if it makes any difference.

Out of interest, what do you do when yours stands tit to tit squaring up to you and you have a split second to get a reaction right before they lamp you one?

This has never happened so I can't comment here. I suspect you have posted the 'what about' in response to something I said? Maybe the bit where the parents need to parent and not the police? Or is it something I am missing? Because yes, parents do have to parent. I absolutely would call the police if my teenager started 'lamping me one' over their mobile phone. What I would not do would be to call the police and ask them to remove and destroy a mobile phone because of some sort of lack of engagement with the family for a few hours a day. That's absolutely normal for autistic people.[/quote]
You were being unnecessary aggressive to the OP, so I assumed since you seem so confident that you would have the answers to those questions about parenting aggressive teens with ASD.

The OP made a suggestion that illustrates how shit this situation is and how desperate she's feeling. Some suggestions on what she can do to help would be better than being told how shit a parent she is.

What phone is it? You should be able to put parental restrictions onto the phone, such as a time limit per each app (1hr a day of YouTube etc)

I would still go for taking the phone away, but gradually reintroduce with these restrictions in place.

I'm trying to see it from his point of view here. Giving up clubs and groups at this age is not unusual and might not just be due to the phone. Could his ASD be playing a part in that?

Phones are part of life now. Especially for teens. They've never known life without tech. 6.30 - 7.30 without having it at school is actually pretty good. My dd (14) turns hers off at 9pm.

Is he causing the trouble when handing it over at 7.30? Can you turn the router off so there's nothing for him to do anyway? Are you and dh looking at your phones after that time? Could you all put your phones together in the kitchen at 7.30 so none of you have them? Set an example.

I’m not sure how many of the people replying on here have first hand experience of ASD in teenagers?

I have 2 teenage dd's both with ASD, one has a phone and the other doesn’t but the one that doesn’t does get totally obsessed with things on YouTube (mainly cars, coaches, motor homes). A couple years ago I did remover her iPad from her due to her room being a total mess and her behaviour being awful, we had a few days of meltdowns but after that she soon found other things to do and now she rarely touches youtube or will just go on there for a hour.

If he does have interests (rockets) then maybe you can do something together involving those interests but not involving his phone? I never discourage my DD’s interests because whilst she can be totally obsessed she is also learning even if it may seem like a silly interest to other people. These interest keep them focused and relaxed at times so I wouldn’t want to take that away. I would be using the interest as a bribe, he gets his phone once he’s done his homework, once’s he’s cleaned his room or after he’s been out to do a activity? Stand your ground and don’t cave in. I find the word “no” isn’t a good word to use, never say “no you can’t have your phone”, reason with him “when you have completed your homework you can have your phone”.

I know this might be me mega over simplifying things but could you get one of those phone safes. Sit down and try to have the calm conversation, explain why you are so worried. Remove his phone then put it in the safe. If he improves, say over the next two weeks, sit down and have a family meeting about everyone’s phone use? Maybe introduce the idea, that at mealtimes for example, everyone’s phones go away, maybe put time limits on both DD and DS’s phone use (two hours a day or something) the rest of the time they’re in the safe? Ask them to contribute to reasonable guidelines such as you both having passwords to phones, a family app on them so you can see usage? Explain if either of them then break guidelines phones are put in the safe for a period of - well whatever you deem reasonable- a day, a week?

I totally appreciate this might be an over simplified solution in the face of an angry and aggressive young man with autism. It must be so hard. I hope you get more support.

Children do not need and should not have a mobile phone that can do more than make and receive voice calls.

@gamerchick

You were being unnecessary aggressive to the OP,

Aggressive?

OP i apologise if anything I said to you came across as aggressive. It absolutely was not intended.

so I assumed since you seem so confident that you would have the answers to those questions about parenting aggressive teens with ASD

So you were just being rudely sarcastic and not actually trying to discuss what I had said at all?

I never professed to have all the answers. If you want to debate or disagree with me that's perfectly fine but stay of the high horses with the 'you have all the answers' crap. You are not here to police what other people say.

Screw that I'd be taking a hammer to it.

Some suggestions on what she can do to help would be better than being told how shit a parent she is.

Let's also just clarify I did not say OP was a shit parent. I said OP had to do the parenting, because let's face it, she does. The police are not their to help take your kids phone away. There was absolutely no judgement on OP parenting other than in this case she just has to get on and do it.

Sounds like there is a real power struggle going on here which is about a lot more than a phone.

If you throw it out/ destroy it then your son will probably resent you and it's also quite wasteful. Also, how long will it be before you give in and get him another one? Most teenagers want phones at that kind of age and most have one. You're reacting with your emotions and it doesn't really solve the underlying problem.

Autistic kids and actually teenagers generally often get fixated on their phones. Not having hobbies/ not leaving the house isn't all that unusual for a teenage boy and particularly one with ASD. I think there needs to be a bit of compromise on both sides here. The phone probably helps him regulate especially if it's helping him explore his interest then it is educational too. It does have some value. Maybe when you remove it he feels anxious or overwhelmed. What do you think is underneath this reaction? He's not doing it just to wind you up.

I would try to have a mature conversation with him about this, explain your reasons, then impose your rule and stick to it. I think the idea of charging in your room at night is a good one, and he can have it when you get up before school and for however long you deem after school.

He probably will have tantrums/ meltdowns, but he'd be having those either way, especially if you destroyed it. Once he gets used to the rule then things should calm down.

I don't think involving the police is sensible or responsible - they have a lot to do. Unless he is actually violent towards you then you should try and do this yourself.

Also have you considered any kind of support from a local ASD organisation? There might be somewhere that could help you with finding strategies that work longer term.

It's really challenging and I hope you manage to get on top of this. Good luck.