To think why this is one of the reasons we have an obesity problem.

[Delamalama]

Friend on facebook has put about 2 stone on this past year. She posted a selfie the other day with a statement saying how she's finally learning to love herself, she may not be perfect but it's her body and she loves it!!! She's on the verge of being obese and suffers with chronic backache. Of course she had comments saying 'looking good hun' 'you beauty!' Etc.

I've noticed quite a lot of younger ones doing this 'be fat and proud' crap.

Am I wrong to think that this along with many other things is why we have an obesity problem.

But more than that how difficult it is to keep it off long term and not drift back

Yep that's the kicker, which is why it's so important to lose weight in a sustainable way you can keep up, rather than saying you'll never eat chocolate or white carbs again, or whatever.

The thing is, there's nothing wrong with an actual, nice-tasting brownie made out of actual chocolate, sugar, butter.

Yes and no. I was 100% addicted to sugary processed foods. There is nothing wrong with eating brownies sometimes, except for when you are breaking an addiction. I can and do eat processed sugar again now. But I've learned to recognise when it's an occasional treat that I can take or leave. And when it's becoming addictive. When it's becoming addictive it's better for me to quite processed sugar again for a few weeks and break the craving completely. These days I'm genuinely athletically fit and I can eat what I like. Not just because I burn so many calories but because the near constant exercise has an effect on my brain chemistry that has utterly changed my relationship with food.

There's just an issue if you're eating them every day.
Again, that's not true when the reality of sugar and fat combination addiction sometimes means that having 1 leads to having 20. When someone is in a place where it's genuinely just an occasional treat, then it's absolutely fine to have an occasional brownie but that's not always the case for us. And we need to recognise that.

I steer my clients well away from "healthy" baking. Food is supposed to taste good. No one in the history of the world has ever made a black bean brownie that tastes as good as an actual brownie.

Sorry but that's utter bullshit. The first "treat" I ate after quitting processed sugar for months was a brownie. It smelt absolutely amazing and I was sooo looking forward to it. And guess what? It was fucking disgusting. So, so, so unpleasantly sugary. I had to pile it up with raspberries and blackcurrants to make it palatable. It was genuinely horrible. And so are so, so many treat foods. They do not taste nice, they are horribly, horribly sweet and boringly devoid of other flavours. So no, a brownie made of beans, dates, cacao and egg won't taste as good as a regular brownie to someone who is used to high levels of sugar. But once your tastebuds are reset to not having constant, huge amounts of sugar, it is the healthy ones that will be preferable.

No one in the history of the world has ever made a black bean brownie that tastes as good as an actual brownie

How do you know? People's tastes are all different. You sound very prescriptive.

I steer my clients well away from "healthy" baking. Food is supposed to taste good. No one in the history of the world has ever made a black bean brownie that tastes as good as an actual brownie.

I would seriously question anyone pretending that healthy food is not compatible with tasty food! I would have thought that the opposite is true. Sorry but food served in a bucket or 1kg of junk food for 10p from Iceland doesn't taste good to me - even if they are pretentiously called "canapes".

Healthy food, baking included, tastes good in itself. No need to drown in litres of sugar or gravy or any crap sauce to make it palatable.

Yes, you’re being unreasonable. Fat-shaming has never made anyone lose weight successfully.

I've never in my life fat shamed anyone but sure as hell I'd never encourage it either!

I would seriously question anyone pretending that healthy food is not compatible with tasty food

Not remotely what I said. I LOVE healthy food. I love vegetables. I think they're delicious.

But my many years of working with sufferers from disordered eating has taught me that it is hugely damaging to promote healthy "treats". There's no such thing as a "treat". Food is food. Don't assign it as good or bad. Don't assign it as a treat food or a non treat food.

There is literally nothing wrong with having a brownie, as long as you aren't having it every day. And it is infinitely better to do that that have a black bean brownie (boak), which will not be the same as the real thing.

Sorry but food served in a bucket or 1kg of junk food for 10p from Iceland doesn't taste good to me - even if they are pretentiously called "canapes".

Nor to me, I can't stand frozen food and I never said that I did. I cook absolutely everything from scratch.

If the brownie was so disgusting why did you continue to eat it?

How do you know? People's tastes are all different. You sound very prescriptive.

Yes, some people don't like cakes or sweet things at all. I actually don't have much of a sweet tooth myself. But I maintain that if you do enjoy cakes and you do enjoy brownies, then a black bean brownie is never going to be as good and it would be much better for your relationship with food to simply enjoy the real thing occasionally than to try and replicate it in a "healthy" way.

But Plonk, some people prefer the black bean ones. Not having met any of these people doesn't make your opinion a fact. Would you recommend that they'd be healthier eating a traditional brownie?

If the brownie was so disgusting why did you continue to eat it?

I’d also like to know this.

I hope lots of people move to bean and lentil brownies, leaving more of the delicious ones for me! I speak as somebody who has sampled pretend Nutella made from avocado and cocoa. Never again.

And it is infinitely better to do that that have a black bean brownie (boak), which will not be the same as the real thing.

Ok, so you know fuck all about what food tastes like then. Black beans or chickpeas make a fucking amazing base for all sorts of cakes. A brownie or chocolate cake made from beans or chickpeas/eggs/dark chocolate, a little dark sugar and bicarb, is by far and away the most amazingly delicious, moist and gooey brownie or cake you will eat. They weren't what I was making when I was immersed in healthy baking as that was at a time where I was breaking a processed sugar addiction.

Brownies made with dates and cacao instead of sugar and good chocolate don't taste the same. Nor is greek yoghurt as nice as fresh whipped cream as an accompaniment. But a breakfast of healthy cake, yoghurt and berries feels utterly fucking indulgent and removes any sense of sacrifice. It's not a dessert or a snack or treat. It's a complete meal, tastes really nice and will leave you full for many, many hours.

As for this nonsense. it is hugely damaging to promote healthy "treats". There's no such thing as a "treat". Food is food. Don't assign it as good or bad. Don't assign it as a treat food or a non treat food.
Again, bullshit. All food should be a treat. Food is delicious and meals should be looked forward to. Every meal I eat is a treat as I only eat foods that are delicious to me. I go to bed at night looking forward to my breakfast, not because I'm hungry but because it's going to be a yummy treat, whether it's fruit and a yoghurt, eggs and mackerel with salad or a cinnamon bun from Lidl. Our tongues are loaded with tastebuds for a reason. We are meant to enjoy food and we are meant to enjoy how it makes us feel. The thing is, I know if it's the cinnamon bun, the satisfaction will be short lived, so I don't have that kind of breakfast very often.

But Plonk, some people prefer the black bean ones. Not having met any of these people doesn't make your opinion a fact. Would you recommend that they'd be healthier eating a traditional brownie?

That's fine, but don't describe them as the "healthy version". They aren't. Do not assign treat status to foods. That way disordered eating lies.

Ok, so you know fuck all about what food tastes like then. Black beans or chickpeas make a fucking amazing base for all sorts of cakes

I have tried them all, and I respectfully disagree. That's my opinion. You can have yours.

If the brownie was so disgusting why did you continue to eat it?

My nana made it. I'd already spent months "rejecting" her baking when I'd visit so I wasn't going to hurt her feelings by taking a couple of bites and refusing the rest.

I agree that all food you eat should be delicious and enjoyable, but that doesn't make it a treat.

That's fine, but don't describe them as the "healthy version". They aren't. Do not assign treat status to foods. That way disordered eating lies

A swift movement of goalposts!

YANBU. I am very overweight, BTW.
People should not be fat shamed for being overweight, but it shouldn't be being celebrated either.

A swift movement of goalposts!

Hardly, it's what I've been saying all along.

I have tried them all, and I respectfully disagree. That's my opinion. You can have yours.
You patently haven't as that's not even remotely possible. You can say you haven't enjoyed the ones you know you have tasted but that's not 'trying them all.' That kind of hyperbolic blanket statement from a medical professional specialising in disordered eating can't be healthy.

That's fine, but don't describe them as the "healthy version". They aren't.

Except they literally, scientifically are. A brownie made of beans/peas, eggs, dates and cacoa is extremely nutritionally balanced. Especially if eaten with more fruit and yoghurt. It's pretty much a perfect meal with lots of protein, healthy fat, fibre and good amount of carbohydrates and a nice variety of vitamins and minerals. It's the very definition of healthy but also feels like a treat. I'm an ultra-endurance athlete and it's an utterly perfect way to start a morning if I'm training. It's good for keeping me going and building and maintaining muscle. I tend to eat more carbs ahead of an event but for my day to day activities, it's fantastic. If I ate a brownie for breakfast (I wouldn't but I did make the mistake of going training after a breakfast of chocolate croissants once) I'd be out of steam early on.

I agree that all food you eat should be delicious and enjoyable, but that doesn't make it a treat.

Then what is it. Of course it is. I love eating. Every single meal and snack I eat is a treat. Funnily enough it wasn't when I was overweight. But it is now. I use my body to the extent of it's capability and as a result almost every meal I eat is the most delicious meal anyone has ever eaten.

That kind of hyperbolic blanket statement from a medical professional specialising in disordered eating can't be healthy

Seconded. It's worrying. But Plonk doesn't understand that point so I'm not going to continue to bang my head against that wall.

You can say you haven't enjoyed the ones you know you have tasted but that's not 'trying them all.' That kind of hyperbolic blanket statement from a medical professional specialising in disordered eating can't be healthy.

I meant that I have tried brownies made from black beans and chickpeas and beetroot, not that I have literally tried every single brownie recipe on earth. I'd have thought that would probably be obvious.

But if you want to split hairs you do that. I know what I see in my day to day working life, as well as what helped me recover from a lifetime of disordered eating, and I'll continue to do what I do.

@Iamthewombat I speak as somebody who has sampled pretend Nutella made from avocado and cocoa. Never again.

Nutella is manky though. Oversweet, no depth of flavour, horrible texture that leaves your mouth feeling all claggy from the palm oil. It used to be nice a long, long time ago but it's foul now. There are some amazing Italian hazelnut and chocolate spreads that taste like Nutella used to. They are more expensive but if I'm going to eat chocolate and sugar I far prefer it to taste fantastic rather than eating palm oil and sugar that creates and maintains an addiction.