Narcissist turned people against me..aibu to fight back?

[alltheleavesarebrownnn]

She told many lies about me.
Used things about me she knew and twisted them.
Contacted the police with lies (proven to be lies ) but she did it anonymously.
No matter how hard I try with these people they don't believe that she's lying.
They've fallen for it all.
She's flipped it that I'm the crazy one who she's had to put up with abuse for years.
The more I tried to prove it..she said I was obsessed with her.
I don't know how to prove what she is.

Yes @diddl but I did become really close to 1 of them.
Weekends away with her,nights at mine,staying at mine,staying at hers etc
So we did become friends in that year

"It's not hard to believe at all! People do not take a stand. They do not risk their own inclusion within a group"

Perhaps it's the group dynamic that's skewing it for me then.

I have longstanding friends & no way would I be cutting them out/believing shit about them.

But I'm not talking group friendships.

(Unless 3-of which I'm one counts!)

@TheShepherdsCrown luckily people who are truly my friend seen right through her.
I wouldn't say boo to a goose ..yet she described me as a violent abuser.

This has happened to me and the most galling thing was when the narc finally turned on them they came to me to complain.

Vent here by all means but you absolutely have to stop talking about it in real life. Block everyone who's involved, don't engage with anyone on this subject.
Have some stock phrases ready, practice and use them -

'You brought up this subject, not me. Don't talk to me about this again.'

The only resolution you will get is to accept there is no resolution. She doesn’t care about anything but her version of reality. The others may be blind or they may be keeping their heads down to avoid being the next target.
If this still churning around in your head so you keep needing to post then perhaps some counselling will help.

@WiserOwl you’ve totally hit the nail on the head. They have a knack of identifying your Achilles heel then poke the s* out of it.

I get how you feel but you need to walk away and forget this. Let’s put it the way that you friend could

“I’ve been friends with 3 women for 10 years. This year I introduced them to friend 4 (all the leaves).
Fast forward a year and me and leaves have fallen out and she’s trying to get these friends of ten years to side with her”.

Obviously from your POV this isn’t th case and it sounds like there’s much more to it. But honestly give up, move on. In my experience (and it is mine) groups of friendships like this where everyone is in and out of each other lives aren’t generally long lived.

OP, I had this with a family member who turned quite nasty.

She told lies about me to various people. In particular there was one elderly couple who were family friends and were lovely and saintly. Suddenly they started acting cold and distant towards me.

I was certain she was behind it but couldn't prove anything, and if I'd asked them about her, it would have looked weird. So I just left it but felt sad.

A year or so later, suddenly they reverted to normal, calling me 'love' etc. I guessed they must have had some insight into what she was like.

A few months after that I overheard her telling lies about the wife of the saintly couple. That put it all into perspective as this lady really was lovely, so if she was going to be on the receiving end of this behaviour, anyone could be. My family member was telling stories about her, generally demonising her. It was interesting to see it happening to someone else. The others listening were nodding but - here's the thing - I don't think they really believed it and were just going along with it for a quiet life.
Some time later I was chatting to the nice couple, who thought my family member was going to move away, and when I told them she wasn't, I saw an annoyed look pass between them. It does look like they found out the truth eventually.

[quote alltheleavesarebrownnn]@diddl these 3 friends I met through are and it's only been a year.
She tried it with long standing mutual friends and they seen through it.
These 3 and her have also been friends over 10 years.[/quote]
If you've only known them a year then just let them go.

I had this with a friend who was also my next door neighbour, it was hard as every time I walked out the front door I risked seeing her and her friends, and being confronted by their behaviour. About a year later I moved and it was a case of out of sight, out of mind. A few years later I bumped into the narcissist in a pub and she tried to tell my friend how we used to be best friends until I moved away and left her.

Block, ignore and stop giving them any space in your head.

Block, move on and don’t give it any more time

At some point she will do to your friends what she has done to you.

I eventually found out what I believe triggered the frenemy that isolated me from our friendship group. A mutual friend who stopped talking to me eventually became friendlier again and told me this event had really upset the frenemy.

It was something I had no control over and happened years before I thought her animosity started. I actually thought it was this time when we started to get along better.

I got nowhere trying to sort out her problem with me. I eventually stopped giving it any attention and realised the mutual friends weren't worth it. I made decisions that enabled me to keep my distance from her. I will never fully trust the mutual friend that has started speaking to me again.

My frenemy has done this to others for years and seems immune to any consequences.

WhoWants2Know
If people believe shit about me, I don't waste my time trying to convince them otherwise! Fuck them. Life is short and there are plenty of non assholes to befriend.

^This is definitely the right way to see this. But it can be very hard to see the wood from the trees when you're in the middle of this type of unpleasantness.

But yes, your true friends will know that it's all crap, as they actually know you.

Op, learn about the Karpman triangle and the roles within this. She is the victim, you are the persecutor and the other friends rescuers (or flying monkeys). If you take yourself out of the dynamic completely, do not respond at all, zero reaction she will have to find another persecutor, which is likely to be one of the current rescuers.

Whilst you stay in the battle you are giving her a target. Remove yourself and time will reveal the truth.

Dr Ramani is a good resource but also Dr Elinor Greenberg. Both are specialists in this area and both agree this behaviour is on the increase. As a result it is unlikely that anyone will escape this type of person in their lifetime..fortunate if you don't but more luck than judgement.

I'm going to try and put it behind me now.
Let it all go and hopefully be happier.
If they were my actual friend they should have told her they didn't want to know.
Not turn on me and call me a liar etc
What a shit year it's been this year

My DHs ex did this to me. They had been over for 18mnths before DH and I got together. She had cheated on him and it was all very acrimonious. She was bat shit crazy for years, the weirdest thing she did was send us a Christmas card every year, signing it from DHs ex previous to her. The cards were identical, after 10yrs they stopped, I assumed she had run out of the pack. She alienated friends and made frequent anonymous phone calls to us.
It all stopped after our DC was born, 12 yrs after we started seeing each other. Throughout we kept quiet and refused to react, I suspect she fabricated a long running story of me doing to her what she was doing to me since I did have a few friends comment that I should “drop it”. At the time I had no idea what they were on about.
We have the satisfaction of knowing the truth and the “friends” who were taken in by her are no great loss

This happened to me in my early twenties. It was hideous. Only one of my friends ignored this person and I think she didn't push it with her because she realised there was no turning her against me.
I felt sick everytime I went anywhere I thought 'they' (the group she turned against me) might be.
I was lucky as an opportunity presented itself to move away (it was that bad) so I went and cut everyone off who had contact with this person bar one.
Twenty years on I'm pleased to say she seems quite a sad person, no family and none of her friends stick around for long.

Would I can't understand is I was a good friend to her.
She changed as soon as I got friends with her friends
She didn't like us hanging out together.
She even said to them you pick me or her.
We can't all socialise together.

*what not would

Someone did this to me.

I knew she didn't like me, but the first I knew that she had been spreading lies and rumours about me was when a neighbour confronted me in the street and told me to stop talking about his wife behind her back and spreading spiteful gossip about her (I hadn't!).

I told him I didn't know what he meant, and asked what I was supposed to have said. When he told me, I denied it (obviously) and he said "Really? X said you told her that . . . !"

I said "Well - I didn't. I can't prove it, any more than she can prove I did, but all I can suggest is that you think about it and decide which of us you believe."

They must have come down on my side because I had no more aggression from them. And it seemed that they must have spoken to other neighbours because the spite she spread with them just abated, too.

Unfortunately, the more you try to explain, the more batsh*t you appear. All you can do is distance yourself and let her get on with it.

like i said on you previoius thread you cant win similar happened to me dont know if she was just a compulsive liar ir what said i was using a mutual a friend twisted everything i said/done to the mutual friend who ended upbelieving her-told me to get lost and i never heard from her again

im sure she went on to someone else they always do they have no life

you have to let it go you know youve done no wrong

My narcissist drove me to question if I were a nice kind of person. She'd call me manipulative because I am very good at bolstering someone and helping them see the best version of themselves (turning around pre-interview nerves - kind of level). Then she'd take that and point out to people that you never knew how I was manipulating them and I was ALWAYS manipulating her.

I ended up being thoroughly emotionally abused by her and got a non-group friend to read through our entire FB messenger conversation to tell me what I was doing wrong and what I was doing to be such a bad friend. Of course 3rd party friend read the nasty-manipulation towards me with fresh eyes.

She was midway through ripping a friendship group apart had ousted one by setting her up in an impossible to win situation but I stopped believing her lies about everything she'd ever said. She overstepped with a lie about me and another friend challenged me about my behaviour and we both realised we were being played off against each other. We found ousted friend and went to a coffee shop to hash it all out. Narc friend walked past as we'd unravelled it all and you could see the look of horror as she realised what we'd worked out.

I went Grey Rock and never spoke to her again except when she was nearly hit by a car and I was nearby. I still have to be genuine to who I am Challenger friend gave her a piece of her mind before she went NC. Ousted friend will have 'the weather is nice' conversations as their children are in the same class. Other people believed her lies but she doesn't hold onto friends for more than a year or so, so they must work it out.

I'm sorry if you've lost friends over this, but there will be other people out there who would see through her lies. Some of them would have met her type before and won't be fooled. I'm very wary of of people who bitch about people to me, knowing that there's a good chance they'd bitch ABOUT me in turn. You need to not tell tales about her to people, shrug it off and rise above it and keep your dignity. If someone does tell you what's been said about you just nod and say 'and yet you'll never hear me gossiping about her' and move the conversation on.

I love Dr Ramani as well!

I only wish there was one book about how to ward off a scapegoating narcissist or a Wendy as she is known on mumsnet! Is there?

(I should try and write down everything I've benefited from but it would be so scarily long.)

All I can really claim despite all the hundreds of resources I've accessed over the years is that I have made some progress resisting my role as the scapegoat and some progress rising above covert scapegoating narcissists' techniques over the last 5 years.

I feel it less each time. If you feel it less, their behaviour has less of an impact on your reaction. You proceed, unwithered in the group. Which shows you're not a good target. It is your unwithered self that is the ''what to do''. They were trying to take you down a peg and you hardly noticed. They move on.

So, if I assume that you're a people pleaser @alltheleavesarebrownnn I'd recommend a dozen books about self-esteem and overcoming the need to people-please just to start with.

The arduous reality for me was that I had to read a hundred or so books which all reinforced the similar books I"d read before. Each one reinforced the last a bit though and my self-esteem, self-efficacy and my resilience did improve over the years.

Right now, I'm listening to Harriet Lerner on audible, the dance of anger. It's very good. I plan to read or listen to all of her books next.

I'm researching everything to do with Bowen family systems right now, it's so fascinating, and the challenge (for me) of resisting the role of scapegoating has really made me see what's happening in these wendy situations.

Along the way I also read everything to do with overcoming the drama triangle and rejecting victim consciousness.

To keep it light, so that I enjoy my ''journey'' :-p (I know some hate that word) I have read books to remind me who I am, who is this person that I'm defending, protecting, valuing!? I want to spark joy, be brave, feel excitement and optimism about my future.

When I was trying to build myself up reading Nathaniel Brandon's six pillars of self-esteem and familiarising myself with narc behaviour and how not to react, it was all a bit heavy and depressing, I felt the weight of my parents' poor parenting of me very heavily.

So I was reading things like ''Big Magic'' by Elizabeth Gilbert and getting out the clay, the sewing machine, Catherine Gray's 'The Extraordinary Joy in the ordinary' and Gretchen Rubin's 'The happiness project'. ALso, Edith Hall's ''Aristotle's Way'' to check back in with myself and my values. It's a tricky one because I think living authentically in accordance with your own values is a red flag to a narc operating out of a false self.
Another book I loved was Carole S Pearson ''Awakening the archetypes within''. I could see how I had over identified with orphan in the past and I did the exercises to awaken my inner warrior.

My next ''keep it light, exciting and optimistic'' book is going to be ''The universe has your back''. Reviews are mixed! But I like the title.

Another truth that helped me was that although I may have been ejected from this group, my one to one friendships and the people who have been loyal to me are all absolutely amazing people and really sure of who they are, all intelligent, funny, aware, loyal, generous and good friends.

Perhaps it is my own blindspot that I keep trying to be in a group when I have good friends.

I recognised you straight away.

You have to stop. I really think you need to speak to someone because I think you are concentrating on this instead of dealing with other, more difficult emotions. It's hard, but you really have to let go.

You did say last time you will leave it... You really, really, have to.

What will you gain by proving someone who doesn't care about you that you are not lying? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

@Techway agree that learning about the drama triangle is so valuable.

But you cannot fight people like this. Narcissists have a whole armoury at their disposal that regular people cannot even touch.

THIS ^

And they have endless malicious energy! Ing after normal people would be exhausted by trying to maintain a vendetta, they will still be relentlessly full of beans. The drama and the spite FEED them. Take that away and they will starve.