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Original poster

Catholic baptism

129 replies

MrsBmaybebaby · 26/09/2020 09:34

Hello all,

Sorry if this is not the best place, I think it’s the closest forum I could see for my question. So... my husband and I were both raised catholic, but are both atheist now. I am pregnant with our first. My MIL is very very religious (I don’t think I can quite explain how religious) and I previously caved to a full catholic wedding to avoid aggro. I loved my wedding day but it wasn’t what I wanted, not because I have anything against religion, but because it just didn’t reflect us or our relationship in any way, given neither of us believe in God.

I know that there is going to be a massive (!!!) argument if I say that I’d rather our child wasn’t baptised. My husband would do it because he doesn’t tackle her on this at all (eg she doesn’t know he’s an atheist, and thinks he still goes to mass, though he’s actually a bigger atheist than me!). I feel very torn because part of me would rather avoid the aggro, and if I thought it would finish here, I’d probably do it for the peace. However, two things bother me about it. First, we won’t be able to name guardians for our child based on our choosing, as they will need to be catholic themselves. Secondly, I would probably prefer that they don’t go to catholic schools, but I know that would also be a massive argument in the future too! Any thoughts would be much appreciated as this has bounced about in my head for ages. I said at the time of the wedding that I would give in to make her happy, on condition that we actually made choices for our children. Now I feel a bit pressurised just to cave again.

Many thanks 😊 xxxx
PS apologies if anyone reading this is religious, I mean no offence, it’s not for me, but I’d wholeheartedly stand for your right to practice any religion you see fit.

OP posts:
Buggabooboo · 26/09/2020 09:38

I don't think the people you choose as God parents would actually legally be your child's guardians if something happened to you.
Godparent is more of an honorary title and a compliment to the chosen God parents rather than anything else

TheQuietWoman · 26/09/2020 09:40

Godparents only undertake the role of helping your children learn about the Catholic faith if something should happen to the parents so that they are not able to. They will not be guardians.

howtobe · 26/09/2020 09:41

God parents aren’t legal guardians Hmm

They’re just named “in the eyes of god” as someone to look out for you.

If you want to appoint legal guardians then go to a lawyer.

Disfordarkchocolate · 26/09/2020 09:42

I think you should have stood up for your own families beliefs when you got married. You've set a precedent for you MIL being allowed to be a part of your marriage which is never good.

Say now, say there will be no discussion, say neither of you attend Mass. Be prepared to shut it down every time she bring it up. I don't think it will be easy but if you don't there will be an expectation of confirmation, catholic school etc that will drive you mad.

howtobe · 26/09/2020 09:42

Also, I’m catholic too.

x2boys · 26/09/2020 09:43

My boys are both baptised Catholic and my oldest goes to a Catholic school ,but it's your child if you don't want to get them baptised than don't your mother in law will just have to get over it, you have to have one Catholic god parent as I recall but the rest can be any of your choosing.

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 26/09/2020 09:44

I can help with the godparent thing. They have no legal status at all. Quite often people chosen as godparents would be entirely inappropriate to bring up a child. You need to name guardians for your child in your will.

The rest of it....Why not tell your MIL you want your child to choose for themselves when they are older. I’d probably let her take them to church very occasionally as they get older. I definitely would not have a child baptised into a faith that neither parent holds.

DigOutThoseLemonHandWipes · 26/09/2020 09:44

I am God parent to a Catholic child. I'm not Catholic I was Christened/raised CofE but am an atheist. The other godparent is Catholic. My god son's parents are like you, not believers themselves but had the children baptised for parents sake so it may be possible to include a non Catholic godparent.

caughtalightsneeze · 26/09/2020 09:46

Forgive me if I've got this wrong, but would you even be able to get a child baptised if you're not a regular churchgoer? I know in the church that I theoretically belong to (not Catholic though) you can only have a child baptised if you're both regular churchgoers and have made a public pronouncement to be saved.

TheSpottedZebra · 26/09/2020 09:46

Just tell her and go your own way. Otherwise, where will it end- baptism, catholic schools, weekly mass, communion, confession... - all the lies!

If your child does find religion themselves, they can always be baptised at a later date.

sleepyhead · 26/09/2020 09:47

Well a major part of your Catholic wedding was you promising to raise you children catholic, so yeah she'll make a fuss.

Either let her do it if you dont really care one way or the other - you dont need to be there - or tell your dh to stop lying to his mother.

Heffersclub · 26/09/2020 09:47

There’s nothing legal about god parents - it’s an honorary thing. I would do it as a tradition thing except if you can’t have the godparents you want then what’s the point?
Our children aren’t baptised but would have been for the naming/ family party if it wasn’t for the fact that the Catholic Church wouldn’t let us Stand as parents to our own children as our kids have two mums. Which was the final nail in the coffin for me regarding religion.
Do you really want your child baptised into a homophobic organisation that treats women as 2nd to men and hid the abuse of children by its clergy for so long?

drivingmisspotty · 26/09/2020 09:49

Oh tricky. At the end of the day it is your decision but it depends whether you want to have the fall out.

If your MIL is very religious she may well believe that if her grandchild is not baptised and dies they will not be able enter heaven/eternal life. (I know a grandma who baptised her grandchildren on the sly in her kitchen sink - anyone can administer the sacrament in an emergency.)

I think your DH really needs to be honest with her at some point though. As you mention the Catholic school question will come up soon enough and if you are not attending Mass you might not have that choice anyway and it will become clear to your MIL.

Heffersclub · 26/09/2020 09:49

My god daughter was baptised Catholic and the other god parent wasn’t actually Catholic. She is a religious nutter tho. Evangelical.

Seventybillionnamechanges · 26/09/2020 09:53

Getting baptised and getting into a catholic school are very different things - you’d need to be attending regularly for that.
However it should be totally your choice.

This isn’t an adult way to deal with this - but surely right now you can put it off anyway with the whole “we cannot do it due to covid” thing. The adult way would be to have an honest conversation with DH and get him to deal with it.

raddledoldmisanthropist · 26/09/2020 09:54

I'm culturally Catholic but now agnostic. I chose to have mine baptised because:

  1. It's really important to my parents and a part of my heritage. My kids are currently Christian (as much as young children can be) and I want them to have that choice even if I don't agree.
  1. I have no issue with them going to a Catholic school and want that option available if we choose it for high school.

Only one godparent needs to be Catholic. We had my dad, the others are not Catholic.

As PPs say, that has nothing to do with legal guardianship- ours are not Godparents.

peakotter · 26/09/2020 09:56

Just to add, I think the baptism would be a bigger deal for your MIL than the catholic school. For a certain strain of catholic belief it is almost a ticket into heaven for children if anything happened.

I think now is the time to put your foot down together with your husband. But if he’s not willing and you DO decide to have her baptised, then I would definitely make it clear that her legal guardians and school are for you to decide on.

tobedtoMNandfart · 26/09/2020 09:56

It's really not tricky! Both you and your DH share the same beliefs - you are both atheist.
To baptise your child would be very hypocritical.
And it's your DH job to tell his mother this.

nosswith · 26/09/2020 10:01

Just as you OP have no issue with those who are religious, your being atheist should be respected. Be prepared for the response from your MIL if you choose not to.

Whilst I have had a lifelong relationship with both my godparents (sadly my godfather died four years ago), in legal terms there would never have been any role had my parents died when I was a child.

When Gyles Brandreth introduced the law allowing places such as castles and historic houses to host weddings, I was all in favour as I felt it a form of dishonesty to marry in a church when you are not really religious. I think the same applies to baptism- neither of you are religious and so should not baptise your child.

LouiseTrees · 26/09/2020 10:02

@DigOutThoseLemonHandWipes

I am God parent to a Catholic child. I'm not Catholic I was Christened/raised CofE but am an atheist. The other godparent is Catholic. My god son's parents are like you, not believers themselves but had the children baptised for parents sake so it may be possible to include a non Catholic godparent.
This is true. The godparents simply need to be “ of Christian faith” not catholic and the of Christian faith could just be how they were brought up themselves not what they are now. However as pp have said they have no guardian status in law and you need to draw up a will. Also re the baptism thing, you could clearly defer so much right now, many churches are open on such limited capacity that you could say it wouldn’t be a proper baptism. Not sure why you don’t want them going to a denominational school but if it’s based on quality of schooling then that’s a good argument at the time.
SageRosemary · 26/09/2020 10:02

I'm Catholic and I can assure you that godparents will have no legal standing as guardians. You should visit a solicitor to arrange what you would like to happen for your child/future children in the event of your untimely deaths.

I completely agree with the poster who said you should have stood up for your own beliefs when you got married, in fact, it was a drain on the Human Resources of the Catholic Church to have used one of their churches and celebrants to have your big white wedding there. It actually makes a mockery of your vows to participate in a faith ceremony.

Now, your husband needs to grow a pair of balls and you both need to present a united front in your families that your child will not be baptised and receive all the other sacraments that follow unless s/he chooses to receive them as an adult.

You need have no fear about sending your child to a Catholic school if that is what happens in the future. There is no likelihood that anyone will try to "convert" her or him. However, you should not apply for a Catholic school if another child (Catholic) is likely to be deprived of a place. The faith, or lack thereof, that is practiced in the home is the largest determining factor of belief.

I have far more respect for people who are openly and genuinely atheist than those who "go along with things" for the sake of their parents. If you don't believe, then don't participate.

I'm not at all offended by your post, in fact I am quite amused at the degrees of atheism that might exist when you state your DH is a bigger atheist than you are, LOL

KANNET · 26/09/2020 10:05

I speak from experience. Draw the line in the sand now. Just say no. My parents where not happy either (threatened to not come to our wedding as not religious). They soon got over it when they realised they where not winning. Tell your husband to stand up to her. It does not need to be an argument just state it as fact.

Oblomov20 · 26/09/2020 10:07

Dh's family are all catholic. He isn't interested, and I kind of believe in God/struggle with my faith, from a Pentecostal history.

I didn't mind the boys being baptised. Mil recommended it. Glad I did because all the catholic schools round here are superb. And the boys never would have got in if we hadn't. I enjoyed doing their holy communion. I take them to church very occasionally now.

Your Dh will have to stand up to his mother, if you really don't want to. And that's a big issue, a whole another thread on its own! Wink

x2boys · 26/09/2020 10:11

This was not true for the Catholic school,s my son attended @Seventybillionnamechanges we rarely attend church but he still got into his Catholic primary school and secondary school,and it was the same for my very religious run by nuns convent primary school in the 70,s and 80,s many families did not attend church regularly.

Rocinante39 · 26/09/2020 10:12

Whatever you decide about baptism and God parents you must not send your children to a Catholic school if you dont think that is the best school for them.

Keep the peace if you must over weddings and baptisms, but you must not compromise about your children's education. They must go to the school that is best for them and not your MIL.