Catholic baptism

[MrsBmaybebaby]

Hello all,

Sorry if this is not the best place, I think it’s the closest forum I could see for my question. So... my husband and I were both raised catholic, but are both atheist now. I am pregnant with our first. My MIL is very very religious (I don’t think I can quite explain how religious) and I previously caved to a full catholic wedding to avoid aggro. I loved my wedding day but it wasn’t what I wanted, not because I have anything against religion, but because it just didn’t reflect us or our relationship in any way, given neither of us believe in God.

I know that there is going to be a massive (!!!) argument if I say that I’d rather our child wasn’t baptised. My husband would do it because he doesn’t tackle her on this at all (eg she doesn’t know he’s an atheist, and thinks he still goes to mass, though he’s actually a bigger atheist than me!). I feel very torn because part of me would rather avoid the aggro, and if I thought it would finish here, I’d probably do it for the peace. However, two things bother me about it. First, we won’t be able to name guardians for our child based on our choosing, as they will need to be catholic themselves. Secondly, I would probably prefer that they don’t go to catholic schools, but I know that would also be a massive argument in the future too! Any thoughts would be much appreciated as this has bounced about in my head for ages. I said at the time of the wedding that I would give in to make her happy, on condition that we actually made choices for our children. Now I feel a bit pressurised just to cave again.

Many thanks 😊 xxxx
PS apologies if anyone reading this is religious, I mean no offence, it’s not for me, but I’d wholeheartedly stand for your right to practice any religion you see fit.

I was in a similar situation, my partner was catholic but not practicing but he wanted the children baptised. We were not married.

As I did not practice any religion I thought it best to go with his belief and baptise then kids. They also went to the best catholic school in the area.

Until we split, then suddenly his religion did not count anymore, I was the one who had to take them to mass every week, I was the one who had to do the holy communions and Saturday school classes. He completely threw me under the bus.

The school also had zero respect for me as an unmarried mother, even though I was the RP they would call him if there was a problem, call me by his name etc it was AWFUL. My eldest hated the school, the head would make comments that he was from a broken home, that life must be hard for him - I finally had enough and moved them and boy am I glad I did, they have flourished in non church schools, actually enjoy going!

Don’t be fooled into thinking religion is harmless, it nearly ruined my little boy.

I would have told the ex partner to do one - you weren't Catholic, it would have been up to him to take the children to church. It sounds as though you did though, in the end.

I'm genuinely shocked by this thread. The control and coercion by members of a religious group. In 2020! It's absolutely toxic.

I am not shocked by the thread - but with the sort of MIL in question if it wasn't religion, it would be something else.

(And I am a MIL myself, but try not to be 'that MIL'.)

Did Harry Potter start this idea of godparents being legal guardians?

Don’t budge. I recently had a baby and my partners whole side of the family assumed the baby would be christened, I’m not christened, I’m an atheist and although my partner being christened as a baby he’s lived the most ungodly life you could imagine! He also assumed he the baby would be christened as it’s just what his family do, but I’ve said absolutely no way. If when our child is old enough they ask to be christened then I will 100% support that but until then, it’s not happening.

I was in a similar situation and did have them baptised. I went to the priest and told him that I didn't go to church and has no intention of doing so but that Mum was insistent, what should I do.
The priest said it was like giving them a passport. They didn't need to use it but they may choose to when they are older. Then he added 'besides I daren't say no to your mum either'.

So we had the ritual. The kids have never shown any interest in any sort of religion.

Honestly, I think a lot of this is the fact that these schools are shit though, or full of horrible people. My sons go to a catholic school. We’re catholic but don’t practise and honestly, it’s fine. Other than a prayer in the morning it’s essentially a normal school. No lambasting single mothers, no homophobia, lack of sex education, militant nuns. I work in a Catholic school and again it’s the same.

If you’re not bothered, and don’t want to christen them then don’t however. You’re the parent - your rules.

I'm in Scotland (but this shouldn't make a difference) and Baptism is the only Catholic Sacrament that it universal to all Christian Churches as viewed by the Catholic Church . So there is no "Catholic Baptism" as such, but I understand you may mean the Church of your faith is where the Baptism takes place . You can actually be baptised anywhere and then attend a Catholic Church/School and receive Sacraments.
That doesn't help you OP. I feel for you, but I think the time has come for you and your husband to be strong . You compromised at your wedding because you could accept/process that as an adult for those you love , respect etc.
You now find you cannot make this compromise for your child . That's not surprising. I think we don't compromise as easily for our child as we do for ourselves.
Time to say "no" .... good luck.

@Rhayader

Did Harry Potter start this idea of godparents being legal guardians?

What?

Since when has Harry Potter defined cultural practices Lots of people have not read the books or watched the movies.

with the sort of MIL in question if it wasn't religion, it would be something else

I fear there is some truth in this

There are no legal implications. Your will can designate your children's guardians. A christening is just a religious rite of passage. You can treat it as you did your wedding, but even more so. In your shoes I would do the christening for my MiL then choose schools etc as I see fit. A christening can be a nice family occasion without you believing in everything said literally.

I'm genuinely shocked by this thread. The control and coercion by members of a religious group. In 2020! It's absolutely toxic.

Agree.
OP take back control over your life and don’t give in.

Exactly @Tunnocks34 ,at my son's Catholic primary school ,nobody cared wether parents were together or not and certainly didn't make deragatory remarks about it ,,it's clearly the school ,not all Catholic schools,even my very religious convent primary school in the 70,s and 80,s wouldn't have made an issue ,of that ,and it was extremely strict with nuns as teacher,s

There are plenty of good reasons why a couple who aren’t religious might decide to get their children baptised, but “we daren’t tell MIL we don’t go to Mass” doesn’t seem like a good one! And I say this as a Catholic, my own children are baptised, I plan to teach them that sex is an evil dirty thing only wicked people do as is compulsory for us Catholics , etc etc.

I think you should also take this as an opportunity to think through how you’ll handle it when your kids say they want to go to church with Nana in the future, which if it’s a big thing in her life they probably will.

Op you need to put your foot down now, Or this will just be the start. I was raised Catholic but I no longer follow, I still believe in God just not the church. My grandmother is very religious and believes every child chould be christened. When I told her I wasn't for christening DC she had to be worked with but is now over it and treats mines as she does other grandchildren. If you go ahead with the christening you will also have first holy communion, Confirmation, Catholic schools and a lot of mass to attend.. I also believe once your child is born your mil will have alot of opinions to put forward and you need to nip that in the bud.

Also I think your husband needs to take on more of this himself, OP, or she’ll assume it’s all coming from you. Tell him he needs some practice in standing up for himself and his views and values re DC before you have to deal with all her wishes on parenting in general as well.

I was raised catholic and am now staunchly atheist. There was no way on earth I’d have got married in a church or had my children baptised, I so strongly disagree with organised religion. My grandparents didn’t come to my wedding because it wasn’t a really one and my mother struggled with the lack of baptism - for exactly the reason a pp said, that she was told growing up that anyone not baptised can’t get into heaven. She has realised now that a religion that teaches that about innocent children has more than a few issues. She’s still very catholic but has accepted my choices now.
This is your child and it’s your choice. She had her child and her choice with your dh. Time to back off.

The priest said it was like giving them a passport. They didn't need to use it but they may choose to when they are older.

This is how I saw it, TBH. DS did decide to do his 1st communion in Y5, after not wanting to in Y3. Confirmation will be his choice in the same way.
DD is going into Y3 now and doesn't want to, so she won't. If she changes her mind later I will sort it out for her.

I was brought up in the Catholic Church. Baptism, Catholic schools, confirmation, confession, brothers were altar boys, the lot.

I always had doubts, but by the time I was 16, I had decided I didn’t believe any of it and one Sunday I refused to go to mass. Result : World War Three. It took a long time for my mum to come to terms with my atheism but eventually she had no alternative but to sort of accept it. Even now, decades later, religion is still an issue on which we have to agree to disagree, which she finds difficult. I don’t have children, but if I had they would definitely not have been baptised.

Unfortunately OP, there is no way out of this situation which isn’t going to result in a major row. If you cave, you are either committing yourselves to living a lie or postponing the inevitable. In retrospect, of course, it would have been better to have had the row before the wedding, but you are where you are. You and your DH have to present a united front to her, or you will always be the villain in her eyes and she will try to divide you and have the child baptised behind your back.

You are fighting against a lifetime of brainwashing. Good luck, you’re going to need it.

Have read half the thread but not all - apologies if I'm restating something that's been covered. I'm Catholic (very!) I'm not offended. The requirement in the Catholic Church is that only one of the godparents must be a baptised Catholic. Also catholic schools are not the be all and end all - some are often not as Christian and caring as some other CofE schools. However I think your issue is more than the baptism though. If your DH won't stand up to his DM over this then what else will she insist on? This is a BIG thing that you feel strongly about. Why is he taking his DM's side not yours?

I don't think it's an issue to baptise them. I'm not catholic but we married in their church and had DS baptised ( the lessons for that were um interesting).

DS went to a catholic school and did first holy communion but decided himself not to go to the catholic secondary school and wasn't confirmed.

I think baptising them gives them options. It doesn't bind them for life and the catholic schools are normally good ones, and not what they were in to he 80s - no nuns in sight!

We've had DS baptised as OH wanted him to go to the same primary that he went to (both atheist but he was brought up catholic, I wasn't).

I was fairly happy about this until I started taking DS to church and found that I had a real problem with a fair bit that was being said, unfortunately DP can be quite funny about things so I agreed to look at the school and conceded because it was the nicest that we looked round and I told myself it will be good from a moral perspective! Well he's been there a week, came home and said "this morning I had to say good morning God, good morning Jesus" and I was honestly fuming inside my head (I know this is my own problem and is ridiculous)

My own doing granted but if you don't want them to be in a religious setting throughout schooling, put your foot down now!

Have been reading through the posts and catching up! Thanks everyone for your comments even though I can’t reply to all. Yes a part of me does think oh just do the baptism, as some posters have said. The likelihood (and where she has shot herself in the foot!) is that I would have done it without much thought, if I felt like it would make her happy/not upset things, and that there would be the end of the tale. Unfortunately as other posters have noted, it would very much not be and it feels like opening Pandora’s box of being dictated to. Don’t get me wrong, my MIL is actually a lovely and very kind and Christian woman. I respect her values in that regard. However it seems like any sense of my values are thrown out of the window when it comes to her religion. Which is a shame, as I just want to live and let live!

@Peregrina I did laugh out loud when I saw that - yes you are absolutely right, there would have been another issue regardless. Because the biggest issue overall is that I stole her son.

A few posters have noted that schools have changed since my time (15-25 years ago). I may investigate this a bit more (unfortunately I don’t have any friends with kids of school age). If we were going to have a quiet life, and my issues with the schools were allayed (just to be clear, sex Ed and guilt, I don’t remember any scary nuns or homophobia when I was at school, although wouldn’t be cool with that of course!), it might be the easier of two options!

I’m my Catholic nieces godparent and I’m an atheist with a Protestant upbringing....the priest didn’t have an issue although he was a bit cold towards me 😂