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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Catholic baptism

129 replies

MrsBmaybebaby · 26/09/2020 09:34

Hello all,

Sorry if this is not the best place, I think it’s the closest forum I could see for my question. So... my husband and I were both raised catholic, but are both atheist now. I am pregnant with our first. My MIL is very very religious (I don’t think I can quite explain how religious) and I previously caved to a full catholic wedding to avoid aggro. I loved my wedding day but it wasn’t what I wanted, not because I have anything against religion, but because it just didn’t reflect us or our relationship in any way, given neither of us believe in God.

I know that there is going to be a massive (!!!) argument if I say that I’d rather our child wasn’t baptised. My husband would do it because he doesn’t tackle her on this at all (eg she doesn’t know he’s an atheist, and thinks he still goes to mass, though he’s actually a bigger atheist than me!). I feel very torn because part of me would rather avoid the aggro, and if I thought it would finish here, I’d probably do it for the peace. However, two things bother me about it. First, we won’t be able to name guardians for our child based on our choosing, as they will need to be catholic themselves. Secondly, I would probably prefer that they don’t go to catholic schools, but I know that would also be a massive argument in the future too! Any thoughts would be much appreciated as this has bounced about in my head for ages. I said at the time of the wedding that I would give in to make her happy, on condition that we actually made choices for our children. Now I feel a bit pressurised just to cave again.

Many thanks 😊 xxxx
PS apologies if anyone reading this is religious, I mean no offence, it’s not for me, but I’d wholeheartedly stand for your right to practice any religion you see fit.

OP posts:
Stripesgalore · 26/09/2020 18:39

‘I'm in Scotland (but this shouldn't make a difference) and Baptism is the only Catholic Sacrament that it universal to all Christian Churches as viewed by the Catholic Church . So there is no "Catholic Baptism" as such, but I understand you may mean the Church of your faith is where the Baptism takes place . You can actually be baptised anywhere and then attend a Catholic Church/School and receive Sacraments.’

Yes. People always seem to not understand this on MN threads, despite it being printed on most baptism certificates that baptism is a universal sacrament and that the baptism is held as valid by the C of E, Catholic, Orthodox etc churches.

OP, I think you have two issues to resolve:

  1. How are you going to establish boundaries against your rather over involved MIL. My Aunt was like this. She wrote me a five page letter on her beliefs about baptism, which I binned without reading. She didn’t turn up to the baptism as it was in the ‘wrong church.’ Whatever.
  1. Whether or not to get your child baptised. It is totally up to you. I am an atheist and got mine baptised. It’s just easier to get these things done at the normal time and then your kid grows up lapsed like most other Christians. Far better than the rigmarole of being lured into a religion as an adult and becoming a zealot. But that is just my opinion.

I am a cultural Christian without belief. I wanted the same for my kids - Christmas, Easter, parables, a nice painting of the Holy Family.

It isn’t really that big a deal whether you get them baptised or not - totally up to you. Do not make the decision based on pressure from other people, but also don’t make the decision not to just as a way of standing up to your MIL and later regret it. There will be many opportunities to put in place boundaries with your MIL.

Namenic · 26/09/2020 19:21

Why not have a chat with your local priest OP? They probably have come across similar situations and may be able to give some advice? You can just say you are considering it (and if you don’t like the idea, then just say you are still thinking about it).

Davros · 26/09/2020 19:33

Perhaps you should formally become a Humanist. This is not a lack of belief, but belief that humans can be good, kind, considerate etc without religion. Then you can say "no, I don't want a catholic baptism/education etc because I believe something else".

Original poster
MrsBmaybebaby · 26/09/2020 20:14

@Davros I suppose I have not formally done so but I did say I wanted a humanist wedding and was told that was not a valid belief system as a religion would be!

OP posts:
Davros · 26/09/2020 21:05

It is!! Gah

katy1213 · 26/09/2020 21:21

You know she'll be baptising the baby in the sink as soon as you turn your back?
But tell her a firm 'No' - she raised her kids her way, and you'll be raising yours your way. And I'd be very tempted to let slip that she raised a good atheist by ramming it down your husband's throat!

courtwood · 26/09/2020 22:23

There's a difference between baptism and christening. Baptism is the blessing with holy water to welcome the child into God's family and any person can do it. Christening is the anointing with chrism oil to welcome baby into Church.
Perhaps MIL could compromise by baptising baby herself (to ease her worries of baby being eternally with sin!!)and leaving out the church part.?

Stripesgalore · 26/09/2020 22:37

Courtwood, almost everything you have written in that post is untrue.

seadreaming2020 · 26/09/2020 23:06

The more I read in this thread the more it seems that the issue is not with baptism/religion per se, but that the issue is that your DH is afraid of his mother and is prioritising keeping her happy above you. And if he doesn’t stand up to her about this it’s only a matter of time before something else crops up. Everyone has strong views about how babies should be reared, and the MIL sounds likely to want her voice to be heard, and not just on baptism.

Blueringedoctopus · 26/09/2020 23:13

I'm married to a Catholic and I'm an atheist. We didn't get married in church and our kids aren't christened. My very Catholic in laws completely accept this - you need to stand up to yours. I get the problem with godparents and christenings though. In certain parts of the UK the priest would not allow non Catholic god parents. I've been to a christening where the mother wasn't allowed at the font because she wasn't Catholic.

VestaTilley · 26/09/2020 23:25

You need to knock this on the head now. Just bite the bullet and be honest with MIL. You don’t need to tell her you’re atheists, but say you don’t want DS baptised as you’d like him to make his own choice when older.

Otherwise, as you say, all through his childhood you’ll have the rows about godparents, schools, first holy communion etc.

My DS is a baptized catholic, but you shouldn’t do it if you don’t believe, and it frankly is none of your MILs business. Don’t let her bully you, and don’t back down.

NC4Now · 26/09/2020 23:55

In terms of your concerns about sex Ed, they tend to do enrichment days on the subject of relationships, in addition to the biology lessons in my sons' schools.
When DS1 was about 14 they were taught the 'cup of tea' consent analogy. They are taught about Catholic teachings on issues like abortion but also what alternative views there are.
I feel sex Ed is very much my role - to just have an ongoing open dialogue with them, and school just supplements that.

sashh · 27/09/2020 06:37

Just a note on the schools. Where I was there were a lot of single sex schools including the RC ones.

I got full blown, angelus every day, Mass on Friday, assembly every day, RE every day and RE was all about RC beliefs with a big project on marriage that included learning the Billings and rhythm methods. We also had a 'lesson' of hymns every week and regular visits from priests.

My brother got prayers 3 times a day. His RE course was 'scripture' so basically studying the new testament.

That's two schools in the same town, I'm sure most are somewhere in between.

Original poster
MrsBmaybebaby · 27/09/2020 07:18

@katy1213 it’s so true isn’t it? I was raised catholic in a very moderate sense, lots of my family are still strictly catholic and would love to bring me back to the flock (but aren’t pushy on it). He’s been raised in a fairly extreme way (the priest views her as more catholic than she, she’s very old school and to the letter on it) and he has turned out to be the bigger atheist! By which I mean he would get rid of organised religion (because he thinks it has damaged the world more than contributed) whereas I disagree with him and think everyone should have the right to choose as they please. It may be a useful lesson for her in that the more she is extreme with me on it, the more I feel backed in a corner, the less likely she is to get her own way. Whereas as I said with the priest at the wedding, his more gentle moderate approach worked well!

@seadreaming2020 you’re probably right. The more I’ve wrote in this post the more I’ve realised I’m not even that bothered about the religious aspect. I feel like control is such an issue for her and nobody responds well to that!

OP posts:
Terrace58 · 27/09/2020 07:29

Stand up for your principles and for your child’s right to decide for him or herself.

Qwertywerty3 · 27/09/2020 07:30

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at the user's request

VickySunshine · 27/09/2020 07:41

I’m sorry but I can’t see how you could possibly get married in church if you are an atheist, that’s blatant hypocrisy. I think you need to make your views known and if you have no intention of getting your children baptised then be honest about it. They can always do it themselves at a later date. In the same manner , I would allow them to make their own minds up regarding any religious beliefs they may have. My father is a flag waving atheist and I had to endure his nihilistic rants until I left for university.

Original poster
MrsBmaybebaby · 27/09/2020 08:56

@VickySunshine you’re right, it is blatant hypocrisy. Not mine, but the religious person who (knowing this, and knowing that I was uncomfortable with it and felt it hypocritical and disrespectful) browbeat me into it anyway.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsBmaybebaby · 27/09/2020 09:05

Again thank you everyone for your thoughts I am reading them all and considering the different suggestions, even if I can’t reply to them all.

For clarity’s sake:

  • I would have had exactly the same wedding day in exactly the same location, except for I would have had the ceremony I chose and tailored to suit myself and DH.
  • I was uncomfortable and viewed it as disrespectful to the religion. My MIL knew of these feelings and, in my eyes, would rather have continued to disrespect/be hypocritical to her own religion, as long as the ceremony was “her way”.
  • I continue to view it as disrespectful to the religion. I’m stuck between pushing my DH to do something he really doesn’t want to do, for fear of rejection/WW3, and disrespecting the religion. Who has put us in this position? Does it seem like it’s me?

Most posters have been fab but there are a few who are struggling to see beyond the “atheist” label to the actual dynamics at play, and to who is being disrespectful to whom.

OP posts:
courtwood · 27/09/2020 14:07

@stripesgalore, I'm only going back to what my cousin ,a Roman Catholic parish priest did for my son.He baptised my son at four weeks old as I wanted him to be baptised before we went on a long trip, four months later my son was christened in my local parish
and I had to tell priest that he'd previously been baptised and only holy oils were used.
Ive only suggested what I was told by clergy.

courtwood · 27/09/2020 14:08

Sorry OP for slightly derailing your thread

Nanny0gg · 27/09/2020 14:14

Honestly? It's your life, your marriage and your children.

You and your DH need to make decisions based on what you want and what you think is right.

You are adults now, take control.

Scout2016 · 27/09/2020 15:18

How long would you keep the pretence up for? Will they have a confirmation too? As soon as the child can talk it will be pretty obvious it doesn't go to mass or know anything about the faith and you can't expect it to lie. Now is a good time to put a stop to things.
I think you can get a legal prohibitive steps order to stop her baptising without consent but if you need to take precautions like that then you have bigger issues, hopefully it's not that bad.

Original poster
MrsBmaybebaby · 27/09/2020 15:39

Yes I agree with posters saying we need to make a stand, be adult about it, tell the truth etc. Obviously I haven’t hidden my beliefs or lack thereof at any point. I don’t know how to ‘force’ DH to do it, as basically that is the biggest barrier in this whole farce. I remember during the run up to the wedding just feeling like I was going to have to take it pretty far ie do it or the wedding is off, to actually force his hand. He is so scared of the rejection element of it that his usual thoughtfulness and common sense goes out the window!

OP posts:
Vaccinebeliever · 29/03/2021 22:03

My DH comes from a catholic country where none of his relatives even considered that we wouldn’t baptise our children. We weren’t interested but didn’t see any harm in it. We arranged a baptism in his home country once we went to visit (baby was a bit older than the usual few weeks). They loved it and his whole family and community were able to be there as well. Such a catholic country that it never occurred to the local priest that we are not frequent attenders and no one asked . Perfect solution. We had a lovely day. His family did all the arranging and we didn’t have to tell any lies or account for ourselves at any stage. His family vouched for it all.