Catholic baptism

[MrsBmaybebaby]

Hello all,

Sorry if this is not the best place, I think it’s the closest forum I could see for my question. So... my husband and I were both raised catholic, but are both atheist now. I am pregnant with our first. My MIL is very very religious (I don’t think I can quite explain how religious) and I previously caved to a full catholic wedding to avoid aggro. I loved my wedding day but it wasn’t what I wanted, not because I have anything against religion, but because it just didn’t reflect us or our relationship in any way, given neither of us believe in God.

I know that there is going to be a massive (!!!) argument if I say that I’d rather our child wasn’t baptised. My husband would do it because he doesn’t tackle her on this at all (eg she doesn’t know he’s an atheist, and thinks he still goes to mass, though he’s actually a bigger atheist than me!). I feel very torn because part of me would rather avoid the aggro, and if I thought it would finish here, I’d probably do it for the peace. However, two things bother me about it. First, we won’t be able to name guardians for our child based on our choosing, as they will need to be catholic themselves. Secondly, I would probably prefer that they don’t go to catholic schools, but I know that would also be a massive argument in the future too! Any thoughts would be much appreciated as this has bounced about in my head for ages. I said at the time of the wedding that I would give in to make her happy, on condition that we actually made choices for our children. Now I feel a bit pressurised just to cave again.

Many thanks 😊 xxxx
PS apologies if anyone reading this is religious, I mean no offence, it’s not for me, but I’d wholeheartedly stand for your right to practice any religion you see fit.

You are going to have to start being honest about your beliefs. I sympathise. I was brought up as a strict Catholic. I lapsed. I married in a registry office, and my children are not baptised. My parents did not come to my wedding, visit me or acknowledge their grandchildren. I cannot tell you how painful this was. However, I could not live according to those tenets and rules and felt I had to live my own life. My parents are long dead. I continue to have a happy family life.

@peonia yeah and I massively felt uncomfortable with the vows for that very reason! A fact I pointed out repeatedly but was not listened to. I don’t know if the thought process was that my DH would do it (because he was and is hiding his atheism) or that my MIL would do it. I couldn’t actually say anything without outing him, which we had many many conversations on. Personally I feel it is more disrespectful to the religion to have said those things knowing I didn’t mean them! But I was very stuck and quite vulnerable

I wholeheartedly agree with you re the anti catholic comments btw. I don’t like to hear those things and would stand for anyone’s religious establishment and beliefs even if they aren’t mine. To me it’s the same as I’m not trans but would stand for a person’s right to be trans and make choices based on this.

I think some posters have a very old fashioned view of what Catholic schools are like now,first communion and confession and confirmation were all optional at my son's school, he did get sex education as it's part of the national curriculum,and they cover all religions in RE not just Catholicism , admittedly its a very different experience of my 1980,s experience if Catholic education.

Put your foot down - your lack of belief is as important and part of you as your MIL's beliefs. It would be telling a lie to make any kind of vows to a god you don't believe exists, and surely if there was a god he/it would know you were lying - would your MIL prefer you lied & made fake promises than stood firm in your own moral stance? Everyone is born atheist, religion is usually pushed onto people by their families, let your child decide for themselves when they are old enough to make their own decisions.

My parents are really religious. Neither me or dh practise any religion & felt strongly about this.

We didn't have a catholic wedding. My dad nearly didn't attend the wedding. He did though

We didn't christen kids & they don't go to a catholic school.

You have to do what you & your husband believe is best. Your mil has raised her kids, this isn't her choice

There was a similar situation in my family when I was born. A compromise was reached my grandfather was allowed to take me to chapel for a blessing. Which was essentially an informal baptism.

I was in a similar position to you when I married - my DH came from a very Catholic family, though no longer believed himself. I knew it would mean a lot to my MIL if we had a Catholic wedding and I was prepared to do it, but it was my DH who said very firmly NO - if we go along with this, where will we draw the line? He could see all the issues relating to our children that would follow, which you are now facing.

His mother was sad but accepted that the wedding would not be Catholic and later, that our 3DDs were not raised Catholic. It did not cause a major schism in the family. Perhaps your MIL will take it better than you think? But your DH should now speak to her, otherwise the charade will continue

If you follow your mil's wishes, you'll have to send your child to a Catholic school, go for first communion, confirmation etc. Why live a lie, let your child make up their own mind when they're old enough.

@RelaisBlu interesting thank you! That was very kind of you to offer for your MIL. I know I’m a stubborn git and I think the more I feel told to do something the more it annoys me. As I said the priests approach was much more gentle and made me feel better about it, in so far as he could. I sometimes think the more I feel forced into it the more bloody atheist I become, it’s like, you can’t make someone believe something? But she seems to really want to try to force me to.

I have to hope she will react better than we think. DH fears a major fall out/rejection I think; she has passed comment on god before her child before. I dont really think she could follow through with that, she loves him too much, but it’s a big thing for him and so me giving in ends out being the easier option

@MrsBmaybebaby glad to be of help OP. Both sides of my family have very deep connections to the church (kind of outing tbh so won’t put it here), and sometimes I do wonder what it would be like to still believe, as I see the peace and security it brings to some of the people I love.

And tbh, I would feel like a huge hypocrite if I was a ‘strong atheist’ like your DH proclaims to be, and my mum didn’t know. Hope you find your way through this. As some previously posters have noted there are different ways to manage it, but with regards to you MIL this has to start with your husband.

Knock this on the head now it will
Just continue with everything in the future (you’ll have to do communions, confirmations too!) If you have a second child you’ll have to baptise them too! You’ll be stuck in a loop

I’m Irish and both families are very catholic - husband and i had a registry office wedding - my parents were fine about it - his mum went mad and said she wasn’t coming - saying she’d arrange with her local Priest to have the wedding there - went on about it constantly then declined the invite - she showed up on the day and afterwards said it was actually a great day and she really enjoyed it! 😂

Baby due in feb and we will not be doing a baptism - haven’t told anyone this - but when it’s mentioned we will just refuse. There doesn’t need to be a big discussion about it - our child and our decision end of!

Whether you need to attend a course seems to depend very much on the priest - some are quite strict about it, others not in the slightest.

But having been there although DH was a practising Catholic when we got married, I do think you need to stand your ground. If your MIL decides that she will do a kitchen sink baptism - well, let her if it keeps her happy, but it won't mean anything to you.

I was Catholic now atheist. There is no way I would send my children to a Catholic school and get them baptised.

This ^

How dare someone look at a new born and think it needs an exorcism (this forms part of the RC ritual).

Draw a line in the sand.

My uncles are much younger than my dad so I was a teen when they married and started to have children. My grandmother was not happy with the uncle who refused to have his children baptised or go to RC school, I suspect she probably secretly baptised them in the bath.

@Heyahun oh wish I had spoken to you pre wedding and indeed others with some more strength! MIL did threaten not to come and as I said my DH does fear a rejection from her I think. I find it really hard to stay strong when faced with his fears about this. I need to try and remind myself that this would be her responsibility and not mine though! If he wanted to become religious tomorrow (of any description) I’d support him so I suppose she should really be held to the same standards, for her own son!!!

@Peregrina yeah I kind of think what I don’t know won’t hurt me! And it will still draw the line in the sand because she won’t be able to tell us she did it (and therefore won’t be able to say they need to have their communion etc etc)

We are both agnostic and got our kids baptised because it was important to our parents, and we take them to church. If I had been devoutly atheist, that would be different. That's a belief in itself. I think if this doesn't sit right with you, you will have to grasp the nettle. Alternatively, if the rift will be too bad, maybe you can reframe it a bit for yourself. So for example, my children ask me if I've ever seen Santa. "No". "So how do you know he exists". "I don't. But that doesn't mean he doesn't". That's how I approach religion - as a comforting belief system.

My DH family is very very catholic, especially his grandmother how is in church almost daily. We are agnostic/atheist.

We did not have a religion wedding but I have always known that if we had children they would be baptised Catholic. My mother, who is also atheist, told me that we should for my DH grandmothers sake. For us it will be a small ceremony and nothing more, for her it's the difference of knowing her great grand child will go to heaven or might go to purgatory. Some things are worth the conflict and grief others are not, baptism is not one of them for me.

@MrsBmaybebaby I think they just struggle with it and their main fear seems to be what others will think - I know my husbands mother was worried about what her sisters and neighbours would think 😂 - deep down we knew she’d come on the day - but of course it caused a lot of stress in the lead up and we were upset with her for being so awful!

You did your catholic wedding for her - so you’ve given her something. She’ll get over the baptism thing - I’m sure - she won’t want to miss out on her grandchild!

@NC4Now

Yes catholic

Atheist here, as is my husband. No strong religious upbringing, vaguely CofE but only for high days and holidays.

Our attitude is, if our daughter wants to be religious, it would be her choice, not ours.

I think OP and her husband needs to tell the MiL in no uncertain terms how THEY will be bringing up their child as it is THEIR choice and she can complain all she likes but really, she has no say in the matter. There is no avoiding this conversation. As others have said, where does it end?

As a secular compromise, would a humanist naming ceremony be a way forward?

@dany174 thanks for your thoughts - how does this play out further down the line eg with schools, sacraments etc? I suppose I don’t particularly have an issue with baptism per se, as you say I don’t actually want to upset people I care about with deeply help beliefs. It’s more the “runaway train” of it that really bugs me, that it will feel like a dictation of multiple decisions for my child/future children.

It will be a blessing (!) not to have the first communion, because for little girls it now seems to be all about the new dress... An Irish friend said that with their local churches it's now customary to wear school uniform for first communion and confirmation. I wonder if that was to get around it being all about dressing up?

The godparents don't have to be the child's guardians. It's two separate things. You can have a will naming different people as guardians.

You get to choose the school. So when it comes to it you can just apply to the school you want and say you got a place in that school. You can just say you didn't get a place in the catholic school. I would think you'd have to attend as well as just a baptism so it would probably work out ok anyway. Or you can fail to meet the criteria in some other way unbeknownst to her.

As for the christening itself, well it's up to you. If you would like to have a naming ceremony or celebration for the baby anyway, then you could go along with it. Nice hymns, words, ceremony, party. Take the ceremony as a metaphor rather than an actual fundamental belief. Who really believes every part of Christianity? I doubt there's many that believe that all of Genesis actually happened.

But if that feels hypocritical to you, then you'll have to put your foot down and get your husband's support.

[quote MrsBmaybebaby]@dany174 thanks for your thoughts - how does this play out further down the line eg with schools, sacraments etc? I suppose I don’t particularly have an issue with baptism per se, as you say I don’t actually want to upset people I care about with deeply help beliefs. It’s more the “runaway train” of it that really bugs me, that it will feel like a dictation of multiple decisions for my child/future children.[/quote]
We would draw a line at the baptism. If the children would show an interest in religion we would not stand in the way but it has to be their choice. We are not very comfortable with religion in schools so its unlikely we would send them to a Catholic school (unless there where not other good options around).

If I was in you I would give in on the baptism but make it clear to MIL that the child will not be involved in religion until they old enough to make its own decisions. But thats me and you and your DH should agree on where your comfort zones are on the subject.

We’re Catholic. My sons god parents are my sister and my husband best friend - he isn’t Catholic:

Regardless though if something happens to my husband and I, then my mum and dad get custody of the kids.