Sir Keir Starmer's speech has just given me a lot of hope...

[fishywaters]

Just that. There seems to be some hope for the future given the current Brexit/Corona mess. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer
He seems intelligent, aware, fairer, musical (aka creative thinker), more of a family man, mum was a nurse. More able to see what will be important for the many in our society. I am a Centrist by the way, but I have more faith in this man. He seems professional and ready to do the right thing.

That includes the treatment which both black and Jewish women have reportedly received in the party, including Diane Abbott.

Well there is no doubt he’s better than Corbyn. However this isn’t a high benchmark.

Sorry to be dim, but what is TWAW ? It is probably so obvious but.....

@BeaverTail

Yeah I don't think anyone should underestimate just how much of a line in the sand TWAW is for at lot of mumsnetters. I remember being shocked at a Trump-supporting mumsnetter who acknowledged that his election probably means the loss of abortion rights, but that was less important to her than the TWAW issue. I don't get it myself...

I'm also shocked at this - and I say this as a person worried about TWAW. I think it's a very blinkered view and one which completely disregards any intersectional issues. As a BAME person my rights as a person of colour are as important to me as my rights as a woman, and some of the refusal to engage with issues of racism because of associated 'wokeness' of the TWAW variety sickens me, as does the willingness to associate with far-right groups who quite frankly hate women, just because they refute TWAW.

Starmer seems to be getting most things right. Johnson has got everything wrong.
Since we must have one or the other it's an easy choice for me.

And he stated he fully supports the measures the PM has set out today and also said that he fully supported the measures previously taken in the first wave and the local lockdowns too. Good that he is on the same page as the PM.

@Venicelover Well, considering it is Mumsnet I'm going to say probably "Trans Women are Women"? I stand to be corrected.

@Cabinfever10

Labour are full on woke and until they drop the TWAW they have lost my vote

This is why they didn't get my vote and sadly won't get it until they change their stance.

Most of my votes over the years have been for labour.
But they will never, ever have my vote again.
As a woman, I no longer feel I can trust them to safeguard us.

What do the Conservatives say about TW?

I’m very hopeful that with Keir Starmer as leader Labour will once again be a credible alternative and so be able to curb the extremes of the Tories even if they don’t manage to get elected.

We’ve had 10 years of the Conservatives acting without any checks on them because there was no viable opposition, undoing the progress we’ve as a country made on child poverty and closing the attainment gap, cutting respite care, stripping benefits from the vulnerable and the disabled all while the Labour left engaged in a ideological circle jerk.

Unfortunately there are still plenty of Corbynist anti semites who will need to be excised from the party like the cancer they are.

I'm politically homeless,I've never voted for Labour,but might have considered it,if it weren't for them not bring able to define what a woman is. We are not an outfit,a feeling or womanface.If we aren't defined,we don't exist and our rights can't be protected. I won't be made to say something that I don't believe to be true. I despise the casual anti semitism that seems to have deep roots in the party too.

Being the opposition is the easiest job.

What do the Conservatives say about TW?
They were pro-self ID until BJ was elected. I believe they have reversed than now.

@AuntyPastaWhat do the Conservatives say about TW?
I don’t know about the general conservative view because I believe it was Teresa May who started the ball rolling on the self ID bullshit, but Boris Johnson has said he will protect same sex spaces and keep the current law requiring people who want to transition to live for however many years it is in their chosen sex.

In fact, it looks like they only formally dropped their self ID plans a few hours ago!

@AuntyPasta
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trans-self-id-gender-recognition-act-lgbt-rights-b528630.html%3famp

@beavertail
Boris actually came out quite a few months ago stating he would protect same sex space and not allow self ID.
I remember it well because I remember saying to my DH that women’s rights was so important to me that no matter what Boris put through, if the other parties continue pissing on women the Conservatives have my lifelong vote

@sheepandcow
“How about no Party excuses racists?
That would be my choice, rather than excusing it with denial, dismissal, and

That’s a nice big strawman you constructed from which to mount your beautiful high horse. There is racism in both parliamentary parties. Both parties need to address it be it Antismeitism or Islamophobia anything else. I want a society that is intolerant to all forms of racism - not just antisemitism from a minority of the left - but racism against every minority ethnic group from all segments of society. Yes, criticism Labour but I hope you’re simultaneously criticizing the vile views held among the Tory Party, and many of its members, regarding black people and Muslims in particular, and among . Many on the right seem to fail abysmally in that regard.

In the meantime unfortunately we are forced by the system into voting for the least of two evils. I will vote Labour because this government has displayed incredible incompetence the past year, led by the clown of clowns who goes by the public moniker “Boris”, and because the Tories seem to stand for little more than than the financial interests of their incredibly wealthy donors. What little “conservatism” of the Churchill/Major variety remained in the party has been thoroughly buried by Brexit. Keir Starmer shows a maturity, competence and pragmatism which is totally alien to “Boris”.

I’m glad they’re not going for self id. I’m not a single issue voter though.

“Labour need to ditch the woke and start listening to ordinary people’s concerns.“

Brexit is going to sink the economy, destroy the Union, and leave ordinary people unemployed, poorer, and queuing for an hour + at passport control on their two night break which is all they can now afford as they wanted to get rid of EU foreigners who will now be replaced by nonEU foreigners. Ordinary people are fking stupid.

I agree with the comment about point scoring . I could be a Labour voter again but at the moment I find he is taking the easy route of politics of criticism without providing a concrete alternative plan . Pm questions he is better than COrbyn but that’s not difficult.

All governments need an effective opposition to keep them in check . So let’s see how he goes . At the moment I just hear wish washy words and no policies.

I’m not a single issue voter though
No, but then I’d argue that self ID has such enormous negative implications for of half the worlds population, and looking at some of the material put out by certain Trans rights groups, extreme implications for young children I don’t know if I would class it as a ‘single issue’.

I think a PP had it bang on when they said a lot of parties don’t realise just how deep a red line TWAW movement is for a lot of voters.

@GladAllOver

But he has supported boris today ?

So what are you on about ? He just wants to extend furlough and no decision has been made about that .

And by the way it is not a U turn or changing your mind when you do what you said in the first place if the situation changes .

And if boris has everything wrong then the majority of the leaders in Europe are also crap . Wonder if that’s anything to do with a pandemic ?