Sir Keir Starmer's speech has just given me a lot of hope...

[fishywaters]

Just that. There seems to be some hope for the future given the current Brexit/Corona mess. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer
He seems intelligent, aware, fairer, musical (aka creative thinker), more of a family man, mum was a nurse. More able to see what will be important for the many in our society. I am a Centrist by the way, but I have more faith in this man. He seems professional and ready to do the right thing.

I have hope that Starmer may swing some SNP voters towards labour. Which would be fantastic from my point of view.

To answer the PP about why the TWAW thing is such a big deal to so many - because it involves fundamentally undermining the rights of women to define ourselves as a group.

This is not an abstract, remote issue if you care about women's sport, women's health conditions (routinely ignored, misdiagnosed, underfunded), women's safety in hospitals, prisons, changing rooms and refuges. This absolutely is a big deal - our fundamental human rights are always a big deal.

There is another aspect to the woke thing that has nothing to do with trans and is if anything more disturbing. It is the purity spiralling refusal to debate or discuss anything, the shrieks of "bigot" at anything which does not toe the line 100%. Open debate and discussion is the cornerstone of democracy, lose that and there really isn't much left.

* I’m not going to dismiss the whole party over Twaw myself, and I don’t think Keir Starmer or those who are currently coming to the fore are as woke as all that.*

^This. Keir Starmar is a very intelligent man and he was a very good DPP by all accounts. He’s also pragmatic enough to know that it’s winning the next election that matters and that means winning back the voters who deserted Labour last year.

@Cabinfever10

Labour are full on woke and until they drop the TWAW they have lost my vote

Me too

I've struggled to understand the point of Labour since they decided against becoming the party who could represent Remainers. Since then, there's really no mainstream party who represent me.

Then again he came up to Scotland last week and said he wouldn't support independence so clearly he's not much of a fan of, y'know, democracy.

So it's a big NO to Keir, and I'm disappointed as I had higher hopes for him.

I had felt relatively positive about him.
Of course it's not hard to be an improvement on Corbyn!

However his speech set alarm bells ringing. I'd had initial reservations over his association with Blair. Got over them, but now it looks like I might've been right. His emphasis on 'families' and 'working people' does not bode well for the disabled.

He managed to include pensioners in his speech but like Blair ignored many of the most vulnerable in society. We mustn't forget it was Blair who launched the war on the disabled. I do so hope Starmer doesn't plan to continue down that road.

My hope is he simply overlooked them just this once. Perhaps next time they'll be included?

TWAW is something I am concerned about but not a deal-breaker for me, not enough to let in another Conservative government anyway (here it is Labour/Con swing vote, still Labour). I like KS and will be voting Labour again after voting Labour last time as I like our local MP but I knew, absolutely knew, Corbyn was going to lose from about 6 months out and had been telling anyone who would listen.

I thought he was crap; words cannot convey how disappointed I am in him.

He can't stop point-scoring. I'm better than Boris. He's a twit. Tories got it wrong.

IMV, an effective opposition at times of crisis doesn't do that. They work with the Government, and discuss things properly. Are you sure you want to close pubs at 10pm? Why would that make a difference to the virus? Does it not work during the day and only awaken at 10 ish and then zoom around looking for humans to infect?

Now, I understand that the reason they think pubs should close 'early' is because the later it gets, the more people drink, the more drunk they get, the less likely they are to observe social distancing and speaking at normal volume. There have been a lot of people asking about that one on other threads, so I'm pretty sure a proportion of our population haven't got that.

I don't care what you did before Mr Starmer (though I thought back then that you were brilliant and wonderful), not relevant to me any more. I want to know that you're not going to be wasting time and effort and energy on scoring silly points just for fun. I want you to show how fucking serious you are and how fucking serious this is.

I don't agree with a lot of his politics but I will vote for him because he's the only adult in the room.

Less than a page in, and there is blatant anti semitism. Until Starmer stamps that out, I’ll never vote Labour.

I want to see a lot of Corbyn ‘policies’ off the table eg defence and intelligence services, unsustainable spending, support for Irish republicanism. Not just saying “trust us” but commitments.

Labour are full on woke and until they drop the TWAW they have lost my vote

Same here. Starmer knows better. Too cowardly to do better though. Which shows just how much he cares about women's rights.

I can't trust a party that insists we pretend men are women and vilifies those who disagree.

Yes agree about the need to stamp out the anti-Semitic racists infesting the party. The misogyny problem also.

@AlexaShutUp

I am concerned about the TWAW agenda, but there are many other things that I'm equally concerned about. Personally, I wouldn't base my vote on any one issue alone, it's about looking at the bigger picture and finding the best balance. I do understand though that it's a dealbreaker for some.

I am cautiously optimistic about Keir Starmer. His intelligence is refreshing and I like his measured approach. I am watching hopefully to see how he grows into his role.

That's exactly how I feel, thanks.

Yup full of fake nice people and I won't be voting for them anytime soon. They don't stand up for women, I'm a women so no they don't get my vote.

Woke twattery and TWAW has such a massive impact on us so it's not simply a case of ignoring this because he's said some hopeful good things.

Honestly the antiwoke lot make more fuss about woke stuff than the woke brigade. Brexit, climate change, health, education, housing, jobs. These are real issues. The woke stuff, relatively speaking, is just a distraction no matter which side of the debate your on.

For every one time a Labour PM actually makes a “woke point” the right wing press will bring it up one hundred times and have their readership frothing at the mouth one hundred times.

Errrr no. He’s far too woke.

We have to hope he can sort things out.
It's so important to have a decent opposition. Whichever party's in power.

Anyone who would prefer a government led by Johnson to Starmer needs their head testing... as for racism issues, there’s racism in both parliamentary parties, though much more racism among the Tory members and rank and file in terms of their rampant Islamophobia. Anyway, I want a competent government leading the country, not one led by an incompetent clown. Thats my priority.

I want a competent government leading the country, not one led by an incompetent clown. Thats my priority.

Agree 100%. It's got to the point that I'd happily vote for a government with which I'm ideologically at odds so long as they can at least pretend to govern responsibly and with the national interest in mind.

I'd like to add to those that are cautiously optimistic, but my red line is also TWAW. Women's rights are hugely under threat and is the biggest issue as far as I'm concerned.

TWAW is also my red line. I feel lost when it comes to politics at the moment, there's no party who both broadly has policies I support but also stands up for women's rights

There is another aspect to the woke thing that has nothing to do with trans and is if anything more disturbing. It is the purity spiralling refusal to debate or discuss anything, the shrieks of "bigot" at anything which does not toe the line 100%. Open debate and discussion is the cornerstone of democracy, lose that and there really isn't much left.

I agree. However, I think KS is correct in treading cautiously on this issue. I think he is moving slowly in part because he is waiting for public opinion to shift, which will give him more of a mandate for changing the LP's stance. The pushback against TWAW started in 2018, but slowly does it.

@Minimumstandard

I want a competent government leading the country, not one led by an incompetent clown. Thats my priority.

Agree 100%. It's got to the point that I'd happily vote for a government with which I'm ideologically at odds so long as they can at least pretend to govern responsibly and with the national interest in mind.

I want a competent government and a real alternative to this one. To me that's the most important thing.

This country doesn’t have a Conservative majority (40%) but we had a fractured opposition.

Keir is such an obviously intelligent and reasonable man I really hope he can put together an effective coalition government.

Not easy in this country where the gutter press has unlimited funds to poison the discussion.

I'm cautiously hopeful about KS but until he has the guts to stand up for women's rights and stamps out all the wokey claptrap then Labour won't be getting my vote back.