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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sir Keir Starmer's speech has just given me a lot of hope...

176 replies

fishywaters · 22/09/2020 12:03

Just that. There seems to be some hope for the future given the current Brexit/Corona mess. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer
He seems intelligent, aware, fairer, musical (aka creative thinker), more of a family man, mum was a nurse. More able to see what will be important for the many in our society. I am a Centrist by the way, but I have more faith in this man. He seems professional and ready to do the right thing.

OP posts:
j712adrian · 22/09/2020 15:40

@AntiHop

He makes me feel hopeful too. I'm a socialist at heart but there is not enough support in this country for a full on socialist labour party. Having a more centre left approach will appeal to more people.

He seems articulate and level headed. I'd much rather he was in charge than Johnson.

I think you have that just about spot on.
Crankley · 22/09/2020 16:19

If I recall correctly (and I'm sure all the Labour supporters on here will correct me if I haven't) Starmer was elected leader after he adopted policies from the previous manifesto. Now he appears to be desperate to distance himself from the Corbyn era.

Based on those original policies he would have no hope of winning an election. I'm interested to see what his next move might be.

I honestly don't think he has a hope in hell in Scotland.

Clymene · 22/09/2020 16:40

@ilovesooty

I can't believe how many people are prepared to base an entire voting decision on the TWAW issue. Are you seriously saying that if that issue is to your satisfaction it simply doesn't matter how reprehensible the rest of a party's manifesto is?
If a party refuses to acknowledge that half the population are discriminated against because we are women, and that women have the rights to single sex spaces and services, then no, I won't vote for them.

I won't vote for a party which kicked out women for challenging that.
I won't vote for a party which put men who identify as women on all-women shortlists.

And that's quite apart from the fact that the anti-semitism in the party runs deep, as one post has just proved.

Wildswim · 22/09/2020 16:41

He needs to move away from identity politics.

Also, I'm shocked by the casual anti-semitism shown by a Labour supporter on this thread. There is a clearly a massive problem with racism in the party. And they wonder why they lost the election.

raddledoldmisanthropist · 22/09/2020 16:45

If I recall correctly (and I'm sure all the Labour supporters on here will correct me if I haven't) Starmer was elected leader after he adopted policies from the previous manifesto. Now he appears to be desperate to distance himself from the Corbyn era.

I don't recall any specific policies he said he'd adopt. He certainly paid lip service to the Left of the party (not least because as a shadow cabinet member he signed up to that manifesto and has collective responsibility for it) but was very careful not to box himself in and I thought it was pretty clear he wasn't going to carry on Corbyn's approach.

Joywave · 22/09/2020 16:51

Boris Johnson compared women in a burqa to letterboxes, does no one care to defend the rights of those women? I care about the rights of women and do not endorse TWAW by any means but I get the sense on this thread, as I do on many others on MN, that this one issue seems to dominate all feminist thinking and as a BAME Muslim woman I'm sad at how little thought is given to how marginalised we feel by statements made by the Tory party and BJ in particular. It reminds me once again that mainstream feminism is not welcoming of women like me.

Joywave · 22/09/2020 16:53

Also, I'm appalled by antisemitism but I'm not sure why people are conveniently disregarding many of the awfully racist statements made by people in the Tory party...

SheepandCow · 22/09/2020 16:54

@Cam77

Anyone who would prefer a government led by Johnson to Starmer needs their head testing... as for racism issues, there’s racism in both parliamentary parties, though much more racism among the Tory members and rank and file in terms of their rampant Islamophobia. Anyway, I want a competent government leading the country, not one led by an incompetent clown. Thats my priority.
We're discussing the Labour Party here. If there's any racism in the Conservative Party, that doesn't make it ok for the Labour Party to be full of racism - which isn't just anti-Semitism either. Priti Patel has been on the receiving end of some deeply unpleasant racism from some involved in the Labour Party.

How about no Party excuses racists?
That would be my choice, rather than excusing it with denial, dismissal, and whataboutery.

raddledoldmisanthropist · 22/09/2020 17:01

does no one care to defend the rights of those women?

Mr Johnson's awful past behaviour has been subject to much discussion on here (and was a large part of why I couldn't vote Tory last time either) but I would suggest that if self ID came in the people who would be most affected would be:

  • Muslim women
  • Orthodox Jewish women
  • Non-white women who are often from cultural backgrounds with a more conservative approach to intimate spaces and (for some demographics) are more likely to be poor in the UK.
  • Poor women who are more likely to need access to refuges, more likely to go to prision and have fewer sporting opportunities.
Chloemol · 22/09/2020 17:06

Very disappointed in him, real damp squib, not a good leader of the opposition

Theworldisfullofgs · 22/09/2020 17:11

If you really believe that the current Conservative government support women then I'm speechless.

I have real misgivings about TWAW and the myopic view on here is difficult to read.
You'd be happy with the most right wing govt we've ever had, the incompetence and trashing the whole country as long as not 'woke' Labour?

I'd rather competence and then open up the discussion.

And yes KS gives me hope.

BillywilliamV · 22/09/2020 17:13

But that is not a real face, it is a rubber mask. What is it hiding?

Yummyplainscones · 22/09/2020 17:20

He is a vast improvement to the last joker but sadly I don’t warm to him. He’s a bit too smooth, he needs to work on being more natural I think. I think his heart is in the right place he just needs to connect with people more.

Thehollyandtheirony · 22/09/2020 17:22

Sex- based rights are my number one concern at present.
The gender issue also ties in with free speech, universities, cancel culture, education, safeguarding, science, sport...
I will absolutely base my vote around it.

SheepandCow · 22/09/2020 17:30

@raddledoldmisanthropist

does no one care to defend the rights of those women?

Mr Johnson's awful past behaviour has been subject to much discussion on here (and was a large part of why I couldn't vote Tory last time either) but I would suggest that if self ID came in the people who would be most affected would be:

  • Muslim women
  • Orthodox Jewish women
  • Non-white women who are often from cultural backgrounds with a more conservative approach to intimate spaces and (for some demographics) are more likely to be poor in the UK.
  • Poor women who are more likely to need access to refuges, more likely to go to prision and have fewer sporting opportunities.
Actually I think this view, although widespread, is wrong. It would affect pretty much all women including wealthy ones. And children.

Rape and sexual assault happens to rich as well as poor. Money doesn't protect against needing sexual assault counselling and support services.

Even if you can afford private hospital, emergency is NHS, and women of all incomes need intimate exams (smears etc).

Toilets at schools (private or state), hospitals, offices, shopping malls. Changing rooms.

Plenty of affluent people pursue sporting careers including the Queen's daughter and granddaughter. They need changing rooms, etc as much as children and women from poor backgrounds.

Even refuges and prisons. They might have higher proportion of people from poorer backgrounds but it's not exclusive. Particularly when it comes to so-called white collar crimes.

With refuges. Financial abuse can mean a woman from a very middle-class affluent background has no money or anywhere to escape to. And, despite popular stereotypes, physical violence does happen in middle-class homes. Refuges aren't homeless shelters. They're safe houses with hidden addresses to protect women whose lives are at risk if an abusive spouse finds them.

Self ID will impact on all women and girls walks of life.

nosswith · 22/09/2020 17:32

Better by far than Jeremy Corbyn, but the Labour Party will not win much in Scotland, and there will not be a Labour majority in 2024. The Tories will do as much as they can get away with to fiddle the election, including timing it so as to make it difficult for students to vote.

FOJN · 22/09/2020 17:41

I think it's unlikely that anyone here believes the conservatives are the party for women's rights but if the word woman can mean literally anyone (under self ID) then women's rights cease to exist at all.
So for example money earmarked for women's health could be allocated to treat the suprising numbers of women with prostate cancer and we won't be able to complain about the inequality of that.

southparkroses · 22/09/2020 17:43

@Cabinfever10

Labour are full on woke and until they drop the TWAW they have lost my vote
Same
FatherBuzzCagney · 22/09/2020 17:46

I'm appalled by antisemitism but I'm not sure why people are conveniently disregarding many of the awfully racist statements made by people in the Tory party...

Because we're talking about Labour. So many Momentum/Corbynite responses to any mention of Labour's grotesque antisemitism problem have involved this kind of whataboutery. The other favourite, particularly of JC himself, is the 'all lives matter' formulation of saying they condemn 'antisemitism and racism in all its forms' when asked to condemn antisemitism. Neither of these things does anything more than reinforce the impression that antisemitism isn't taken seriously by the left of the party.

hesaidshesaidwhat · 22/09/2020 17:48

Another one who won't vote for them until they drop the TWAW

Oly4 · 22/09/2020 17:54

Love Keir

BeaverTail · 22/09/2020 17:54

Yeah I don't think anyone should underestimate just how much of a line in the sand TWAW is for at lot of mumsnetters. I remember being shocked at a Trump-supporting mumsnetter who acknowledged that his election probably means the loss of abortion rights, but that was less important to her than the TWAW issue. I don't get it myself...

Turtleturtle81 · 22/09/2020 17:56

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feelingverylazytoday · 22/09/2020 17:57

I won't vote labour again unless they stop pandering to beardy woketwats and champagne socialists and celebrities and start representing the British working class again which, surprise surprise, includes women.

PicsInRed · 22/09/2020 18:01

If he deals sternly to the misogyny, I'll probably vote for them (assuming they are no longer antisemitic). But he isn't getting my vote if they don't deal with misogyny, period.

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