To not allow my 17 year old daughter to go on holiday with her boyfriend and their parents?

[cinderelly]

Hi my 17 year old daughter met her first boyfriend on twitter in June 🙈 Once lockdown was restricted they met up and have been quite intense ever since. Constant weekly dramas. We have asked to meet him but she kept making excuses. We didn't mind and just put it down to nerves. She started spending more time with him and she met his parents on 10th September. Since then - 11 days ago - they have been for 2 meals and the parents have joined too. I thought this was really sweet and asked when we could all meet. The red flags started after their 2nd meal - 5 days after meeting them for the first time - they asked her to go on holiday to gran canaria in December (her 18th). I was so shocked. We have never met them, I dont even know their full names and apart from being angry that they didnt broach the subject with her parents first, my initial reaction was "that is weird". Obviously she was flattered and was annoyed at my reaction. The next day I explained how I felt and thought she understood. I explained that i think it was too soon but would like to meet them. She was very defensive and eventually admitted that she was worried that we wouldn't get along. I tried to put her mind at rest and eventually backed off. I'm in no hurry and felt the holiday suggestion might have just been an off the cuff comment and assumed it would blow over. On Friday night the parents joined them again on a night out (the lad can't seem to go anywhere without them!) This time was to a bar in the city centre. My daughter text me at 11pm asking if she could stay over in their house. Again, bad cop here I said no. They dropped her off in a taxi about half an hour later and I used the chance to say hello and introduce myself. I was met by a very drunk and hostile mother. My daughter was drunker than id expected and the only thing the mother said to me was "shes had a drink ok!" My defenses went up immediately, so I just said "Really!" walked away and shut the door. I immediately realised why she was keen for us not to meet. Since then (Friday) they have booked a villa - apparently assumed she was going - still not attempted to get in touch with us - despite us knocking at their house on Sunday evening after (reluctantly) letting my daughter visit Sunday afternoon. She came home from college tonight absolutely sobbing her heart out because her boyfriend has 'flipped' saying we are too controlling and she should just go because she is 18.
I am absolutely flabbergasted. My blood is boiling and I find this whole scenario totally unreasonable of the parents. They have made no attempt to meet us and just seem to be poking for a reaction. Is it just me? I really feel like she needs protecting and I'm really sceptical about the parents intentions. Please help!?!?

I think I'd be trying to get her to see how controlling and abusive he is , sounds like he's not good boyfriend material. She should be high on love at this stage not in tears all the time.
For that reason I'd say no.

@SelkieQualia

She will be an adult - you can't stop her. The tears and drama are unfortunate, but hardly unusual at that age. It is really odd and controlling that a 17yo is asking permission to stay at her boyfriend's house.

‘...odd and controlling..’ 😳 It definitely isn’t, it’s just good manners imo.

Taking age out of the equation...as this could happen at any age on a holiday with the ‘in-laws’...if the relationship is volatile and they have an argument on holiday it’s likely that your DD’s boyfriends parents will be on their sons side which could be very isolating for her a long way from home.

It’s a tricky one. Whatever you ultimately decide I would have a serious chat with her asking how she would feel if they fell out on holiday and she was on her own in a difficult situation. If there’s been a lot of drama already this must be a potential scenario. Unfortunately it sounds like the harder you push, the stronger she will push back. If she’s 18 before she goes I can’t see that you can do anything but tell her you don’t agree with it but that you love her and you’ll be there when she gets back. It may take a while for her to learn it comes from a place of love, but sometimes you have to let adult children make their own mistakes and be there to pick up the pieces. How old is he?

Why not, she's 17 not a kid. My dd was invited on holiday by her boyfriends parents at 17, I didn't know them, it's not normal to know your adult kids friends parents! I did ask for a contact phone number and emailed the mother to check the financial arrangements, that's all. He's obviously close to his parents, that's sweet

Tone changing on this thread as we pass midnight. OP will need the old tin hat for the night

That’s interesting, ClareBlue. I wondered why the OP, who sounds perfectly reasonable, was being called controlling.

@cinderelly

They wouldn't expect her to need them to talk to you, she's old enough to liaise herself and as for inviting her quickly, he's probably begging them to let her come. The date is when they are going. All seems normal to me, very similar to my dd. I didn't meet her current dp until a school event (boarding school) and she introduced him and his parents

'She will be an adult - you can't stop her. The tears and drama are unfortunate, but hardly unusual at that age. It is really odd and controlling that a 17yo is asking permission to stay at her boyfriend's house.'

This. Op back off, she is nearly 18 not 15. Be supportive not controlling. Parents don't meet a teenagers boyfrend or girlfriend parents. Even if going on holiday a chat over the phone to sort out details will suffice.

You are pushing her away.

Only on the fantasy planet of Mumsnet do all the other parents breezily allow their 17 yr old do as they please. You sound like a lovely mum with concerns, I'm not sure you'll get much help here. It appears some of the mums on this thread don't much care about their offspring seems 17 is the cut off point.

@cbt944

Crikey! This sounds very alarming. Gran Canaria is no doubt a great place to visit - but not during a pandemic. Who knows what the situation will be in December, but flights there are currently being cancelled from what I've read. And these (weird aggressive drunk nutter of a mother is offputting in itself, encouragement of drink culture is another) strange people have just met her and want to take her somewhere far away-argh! I'd be worried they are up to some predatory thing involving sex trafficking-all without the usual polite meet-the-other-parents interchange having first occurred, or the proposal discussed with you. It all sounds so weird. (And the additional information about his behaviour makes it more alarming.)

I don't think it's at all controlling to be protective in these circumstances. I think I'd make it about Covid, and flights back, and the government, and isolation after, possible problems, etc, rather than them.

Not this.

The parents seem to be treating son as an adult, and therefore wouldn't even consider consulting parents of the partner.

His behaviour is the concern, OP, from your drip feed. Stop focusing on the parents, ignore people who think that inviting someone on holiday makes you a sex trafficker, and guide your daughter through this unhealthy first relationship. Make sure she knows the risks and the concerns, and guide her to make her choice.

I think it’s rather weird that you are so insistent on meeting the parents – at 7 for a play date yes, at 17 a boyfriends parents – that’s not usual… Of course you need to meet the boyfriend & get to know him, Include him in family activities, suggest you go out from meal with them,but meeting the parents is not really usual at this stage. Back off, be there to support her & maybe try a little bit of reverse psychology by agreeing so enthusiastically about this holiday, so keep asking her how she’s going to afford it and what will happen if they fall out between now and then or what they’re on holiday...

I wouldn't have dreamt of asking to stay at a boyfriends at 17 when I lived at home still.

Seriously!? I was living with mine by then.

@ClareBlue

The BF is using emotional manipulation and your daughter has no experience in dealing with it. Those saying she is 18 and it is all her choice are wrong. We can all be vulnerable at any stage in our life and those close to us should support us, especially parents. This is different to interfering or controlling our children or their lives and most parents recognise it is a difficult balancing act to get right. One way to help is by sharing experiences.

As ClareBlue says

When she is abroad, in a villa, in a country where she doesn't speak the language she is very vulnerable.

When she is there I don't doubt the boyfriend will be pressuring her for sex (which may not have happened between them yet) and she won't have anyone to fight her concern if she doesn't want to go that far (or do particular things).

I know this sounds controlling and dreadful but I'd be tempted to hide her passport!

The problem is that if you come down hard, she will go just to spite you and show you she can do what she likes. Have you met this boy? What is he like? Can you use worries over the pandemic to talk her out of the holiday - and that fact that she'll be missing college?

If she's come home crying about what he's said, that suggests to me that in her heart she doesn't believe it but is frightened of losing him. I don't think she really wants to go, but can't see a way to refuse (she is a "young" 17 and the family sounds "pushy" at best). You could point out that he says that you are controlling, but he is also putting pressure on her, and if he cared about her he wouldn't want to make her unhappy. (And also, that he doesn't seem to be able to do anything without his parents holding his hand all the time. How is that not controlling? TBH, I think it's weird) But I honestly think it's likely that she doesn't particularly want to go but can't think of how to say "no".

I agree that expressing disapproval and then backing off is the way to go. Maybe point out that if he snaps at her like he did today, she'll be stuck with him and 2 adults who will take his side, 2000 miles away.

I think this is the only advice you can give - and point out that if she becomes ill then there will be no National Health Service there, and that the destination's own medical services are likely yo be overwhelmed, too.

And pray for a foreign travel lockdown.

@MrsKingfisher

Only on the fantasy planet of Mumsnet do all the other parents breezily allow their 17 yr old do as they please. You sound like a lovely mum with concerns, I'm not sure you'll get much help here. It appears some of the mums on this thread don't much care about their offspring seems 17 is the cut off point.

I totally agree, and as a much older MN-er I have a vast amount of experience, good and bad, as a mum too. Go with your instincts; the last time I followed mine I was definitely right to do so, the boyfriend was a total nightmare.

@Pluckedpencil

If she is jot pushing hard to go, I think she possibly wants to use you as the excuse not to go, and I think you should let yourself be cast in the role of the villain on this occasion. Just tell her the reason she can't go is because they have only just met and if they fall out they are too far away to come collect her. Tell her you will phone the mother to explain this to her. Don't back down. Just say the above and that you know you are overprotective (lie!) but you'd much prefer to wait until they have been together at least a year before foreign holidays. This is a perfectly valid reason and doesn't reflect an opinion on anyone!!

That's what I think, too.

She's not comfortable with this situation but can't get out of it.

YANBU. When I read your title I thought you were being unreasonable but there is no way in hell my 17 year old daughter would be going abroad with a family who got her drunk and were then rude and disrespectful to her parents. His parents have gone about this in completely the wrong way, which shows a huge error of judgment. No wonder you don’t trust them with your precious daughter.

My DS is 19 and of course I want to know where he is and who he is spending time with ... he has only stayed at his GF's parents house once, and that was after a conversation with her parents (whom we know) and a clear explanation of the separate bedroom arrangements

Now this is controlling! He's an adult and you're talking about ensuring separate bedroom arrangements!? That surely would have been out the window at 16, when he was legally allowed to have sex with her anyway. Overbearing doesn't scratch the surface here.

I have never had an arranged "meet the parents" for any of my boyfriend's! Not even my current one who I've been with 7 years and had a kid with (started dating at 17).

The only "Controlling" people here are the BF and his date-crashing, drunken parents

"She constantly blames herself and persuades herself its just friendly banter when he puts her down for her clothes, her education, her IG posts. She even had a secret IG account from him. He looked in her phone, found it and left her sobbing in town after he told her it was over because she didn't tell him"

She barely know them, you have only met when his pissed Mum practically fell out of the Taxi - but according to MN she is and adult (at 17) and its OK.

I would NOT be paying for her holiday
I would NOT be letting her miss college ( what does he do?)
I would NOT let her go half way round the world with near strangers and their unpleasant, bullying son.

But that's because I am a parent, not my child's cool friend

'My DS is 19 and of course I want to know where he is and who he is spending time with ... he has only stayed at his GF's parents house once, and that was after a conversation with her parents (whom we know) and a clear explanation of the separate bedroom arrangements'

19!!

This reminds me of a parent who escorted her NT dc on the school bus. Secondary school bus

Helicopter parents stand down! Yes they need support and advice in their teens but we shouldn't be laying down rules at 19 (or 18) regarding their sex lives.

I would not be at all happy with this either. The whole situation sounds off. However, if she will be 18 when she goes, sadly I don't think you can actually prevent her from going if she wants to.

@Seasuns
I agree, that’s mortifying and incredibly overbearing.

We have 19 & 17 yr old dds. Our 19 yr old is in 2nd year at uni and living independently with 5 girls in a flat. She has been on holidays a couple if times that she funded herself.

If this was our 17 yr old neither her dad or I would like this set up at all and would not let her go. She knows we are reasonable so even if she was mad she would accept our opinion. We just let her go for a 4 day holiday in our state (in the US) with a dad and 4 of her girlfriends, they were at a lake house having fun, but he is very responsible and we know the girls. The idea you should let a teen go to another country with strangers is bizarre to us.

They sound like the kind of parents who want to be their child’s best friends, rather than parents. Getting drunk with their 18 year old, who does that? I’d be worried about other substances than alcohol too. OP there is nothing unreasonable about not wanting your 17 year old to go on holiday with older adults you’ve never met.

I was invited on holiday by a (female) friend’s parents aged 17. My parents of course called hers to discuss the trip / costs/ etc- I don’t think there’s anything unusual about that at all and their reluctance/ refusal to frame the invitation properly is either rude or very odd. I wonder if he is an only or youngest child and they see your daughter as a convenient way to occupy him while they have their own holiday? I find these grand invitations out of the blue quite odd under any circumstances- am thinking of a couple of sets of school parents who instantly suggested family holidays together the very first time we went out for a drink with them - it’s a little overbearing to invite people you barely know on holiday and the fact that this is your 17 yr old daughter makes it more so.
Having had stupidly strict parents (totally destroyed my relationship with mother), I’d suggest that you find it unusual that they’re so casual about it but if she’s absolutely sure that she wants to go abroad with people she hardly knows and is comfortable with all that entails, then she’s better start saving up. And of course she must be absolutely comfortable with losing every penny she’s saved in the event that the holiday is cancelled because of coronavirus. Let her make the decision but very gently introduce the decision making factors for her to think of. And let her know that it’s also entirely her decIsion NOT to go as well - if she has said no and they’re pushing, how will she feel about saying no to things she isn’t comfortable with when she’s out there?