To not allow my 17 year old daughter to go on holiday with her boyfriend and their parents?

[cinderelly]

Hi my 17 year old daughter met her first boyfriend on twitter in June 🙈 Once lockdown was restricted they met up and have been quite intense ever since. Constant weekly dramas. We have asked to meet him but she kept making excuses. We didn't mind and just put it down to nerves. She started spending more time with him and she met his parents on 10th September. Since then - 11 days ago - they have been for 2 meals and the parents have joined too. I thought this was really sweet and asked when we could all meet. The red flags started after their 2nd meal - 5 days after meeting them for the first time - they asked her to go on holiday to gran canaria in December (her 18th). I was so shocked. We have never met them, I dont even know their full names and apart from being angry that they didnt broach the subject with her parents first, my initial reaction was "that is weird". Obviously she was flattered and was annoyed at my reaction. The next day I explained how I felt and thought she understood. I explained that i think it was too soon but would like to meet them. She was very defensive and eventually admitted that she was worried that we wouldn't get along. I tried to put her mind at rest and eventually backed off. I'm in no hurry and felt the holiday suggestion might have just been an off the cuff comment and assumed it would blow over. On Friday night the parents joined them again on a night out (the lad can't seem to go anywhere without them!) This time was to a bar in the city centre. My daughter text me at 11pm asking if she could stay over in their house. Again, bad cop here I said no. They dropped her off in a taxi about half an hour later and I used the chance to say hello and introduce myself. I was met by a very drunk and hostile mother. My daughter was drunker than id expected and the only thing the mother said to me was "shes had a drink ok!" My defenses went up immediately, so I just said "Really!" walked away and shut the door. I immediately realised why she was keen for us not to meet. Since then (Friday) they have booked a villa - apparently assumed she was going - still not attempted to get in touch with us - despite us knocking at their house on Sunday evening after (reluctantly) letting my daughter visit Sunday afternoon. She came home from college tonight absolutely sobbing her heart out because her boyfriend has 'flipped' saying we are too controlling and she should just go because she is 18.
I am absolutely flabbergasted. My blood is boiling and I find this whole scenario totally unreasonable of the parents. They have made no attempt to meet us and just seem to be poking for a reaction. Is it just me? I really feel like she needs protecting and I'm really sceptical about the parents intentions. Please help!?!?

They sound like riffraff and clearly she realises this as she didn't want to introduce them; however, she's 18 and you can't stop her. If you're lucky, flights will be cancelled by December!

I can't believe people think you should pay for a holiday for your DD when you don't even know who she is going with.

His parents are the controlling ones as they're going along for the drinks and encouraging her to go on the holiday.

However I think maybe agree to it and keep communication open. The more you say no the more she will dig her heels in. Then she'll likely just spend all her time over theirs anyway. They're portraying themselves as the 'fun' parents and making out to her that you're the 'sensible/boring' parents.

I don't think it's weird to not meet the parents right away - what is more weird is how involved they seem to be in your DD relationship. Surely the normal thing is for a couple to meet with mates the same age. Go on holiday with mates the same age.

You haven't met the boyfriend yet? Do you know how old he is for sure?

From what little you know OP and you have very little to go on.....

you could presume there will be lots of drinking on that holiday.

Your DD could be in a very pressurised situation in that Villa.

Just NO.

If they've booked a villa (as opposed to a hotel or package holiday) why are they expecting a 17 year old to contribute anyway? As opposed to just paying for her own flights?

None of the boyfriend's family's behaviour is very good.

And just don't pay for the holiday OP. At 17, I had a part time job even though I was studying to go to uni.

Some of the responses on here as so odd.

Tbh I usually come down more on the side of 18 year olds shouldn't be babied but there is a list of red flags as long as my arm here.

I don't think it's an either/or situation, where you must either think she is a child that needs protecting or a fully fledged adult whose mother should have nothing to do with her choices, this particular boyfriend just sounds like really bad news and I don't think OP is unreasonable for thinking so.

But regardless of that, it definitely doesn't add up to say OPs daughter is basically an adult and should be free to do what she likes, but also that OP should pay for her holiday. No child of any age should just expect their mum to pay for a holiday for them without them offering, but an adult definitely shouldn't.

FFS the OP is NOT being controlling

Have the posters saying got teenage daughters? Have they even bothered to read the OP’s updates?

I thought not.
For the benfit of the lazy posters slating the OP for being controlling this is the reddest of red flags updates:

She constantly blames herself and persuades herself its just friendly banter when he puts her down for her clothes, her education, her IG posts. She even had a secret IG account from him. He looked in her phone, found it and left her sobbing in town after he told her it was over because she didn't tell him

And this
She has fallen out with 2 friends that met him because they disliked him and hasnt introduced him to anyone else

A cautionary tale:
Yesterday DH and I went for a walk. While walking back to the car we heard some extremely loud shouting and swearing. At first we thought it was some lads messing about. Then we heard a girl crying and shouting leave me alone, so we went to investigate. Her boyfriend was shoving her about and shouting awful things to her so we asked if she was OK. She said she wasn’t. DH tried to talk the lad down while the girl rang her dad. The boyfriend walked off and we stayed with the girl until her dad turned up.

This could be the OP’s daughter’s future.

@RudieSmithy

OP is handling this badly with the best intentions.

She has a big birthday coming which legally grants her a lot of decision making privileges. You have a birthday to consider, though it may seem minor. It's a milestone she will remember, don't f*ck it up.

She is asking to go abroad on a trip that will more than likely be cancelled. You don't need to say it, common sense dictates it.

You do seem overbearing, whether it's because you are I don't know but it is how your daughter is reading you. On the cusp of adulthood you have got to change tactic and keep her onboard or she will become more secretive.

You have to show that you trust her, even if you don't. That will keep your relationship strong so that you can teach her. No comments about the other parents or the son flipping out unless she asks for your advice. Yes, his parents are likely dog rough but to her they're parents who are relaxed, allow her to drink (too much, doesn't need rubbing in) and recognise her as the adult she thinks she is. Your actions don't recognise her as that.

Sit her down, tell her you care and that you're sorry that it hasn't come across well. Tell her you trust her. Share your own experiences if you have any. Share your concerns too. Do not make a decision on the holiday and don't say no. Tell her you'd like to meet her bf. when you do treat them as young adults. If she's smart then the red flags are there for her too and she will reach her own decision with supportive guidance from you but only if she feels she can ask. If you talk to her about safe sex now she won't listen.

Their villa is booked, she isn't a cost in that regard. This decision can wait, Boris may be the bad cop for you. Tell her you won't make a decision yet, you'd like to get to know the bf. if it's really important to her you'll think about it properly and decide later on. The emphasis right now has to be on keeping lines of communication open with her and if you carry on as you are you're shutting those all down.

OP, I gave you good advice. I implore you to be calm or lose your daughter.

@Ginfordinner easy now, I think that makes you a controlling interfering busy body round here! The parents (& girl) must have been so grateful to you

'She has fallen out with 2 friends that met him because they disliked him and hasnt introduced him to anyone else.'

Did you say this earlier? If so I must've missed it. This would bother me. However your op read more that she'd had meals out with his parents and they'd invited her away and at nearly 18 you thought this was inappropriate without having met his parents! You need to decide if you think he is dodgy because it did sound like you were overreacting. Why don't her friends like him? Just say if wants to go you want to meet him, informally obviously doesn't have to be a grilling, and ask for his parents email or phone number so you can discuss plans.

'Isn't it obvious? They are proposing to take her daughter off somewhere alone and have been unusually intense up until now. She has recognised that on paper their behaviour is in line with how someone predatory would typically act and is concerned they may pose a danger to her daughter'

Your concerns all sound sound perfectly reasonable - I wonder what resources there are aimed at teens to help them identify abusive relationships? Like a version of this that will connect with a 17 year old who is 100% in an abusive relationship that she needs to extricate herself from?

The holiday is a red herring, IMO. He's abusing and gaslighting her. She should be having the time of her life with him right now, not sobbing her heart out, having secret instagram accounts from him, and dropping her friends because they're aghast at him.

This whole relationship sounds like a bad idea, let alone the holiday. Trust your instincts on this. It's not just her age. I'd be wary of a friend in this situation even if they were in their 20s (although that would make the parent thing more weird!) It sounds like they are putting pressure on her to do things before she is ready. I went on holiday with my bf when we had just turned 18. He came away with my parents for a night when we were 17. The difference is we had been together for a couple of years by then and met the parents etc.

I would go down the route of saying you think it's a bad idea because of missing college and the pandemic meaning it may be cancelled or having to isolate. Then support your DD and hopefully she will eventually call the relationship off. As for people saying you are treating her as a child, I disagree somewhat. At 17/18 I was still at school and needed a note from my mum if I was off sick, let alone going on holiday! I also think she is confused and may almost need you to be the 'bad guy' here if she is finding saying no herself tricky.

Do not pay for the holiday! If they are so desperate to have her in holiday they can pay for it themselves.
Then sit back knowing the chances that by December travel bans and lockdown are likely to be in place.

I would also be trying to convince her to go on some fool proof contraception like the injection because I wouldn't put it past those weirdos wanting a grandbaby soon.

If you are also paying for your DD education I would have a serious discussion about her wasting your money as well as her education. If I'm paying for my kids education I expect them to be committed to their education.

@GetOffYourHighHorse - she says she has tried and he never turns up.

Pl go the other way - make a huge effort / don’t judge. You are pushing her towards them. You need to trust your good parenting has worked and she will come to realise the issues. Honestly, for one there is a good chance the holiday might not happen but also at 18 she doesn’t need your permission. Put your foot down and she will stick by her boyfriend. Change your tune and be encouraging and she may relax and realise they are not that great.

In the short term I would explain to her that we're about to go into another lockdown, that there is almost no chance of travel being permitted by December, and that booking it now means you will lose your money and almost certainly not be able to claim on insurance (there is zero chance of recouping any cash off these parents when it goes pear shaped!).

You can't afford to just throw away XYZ amount of money that you have earmarked for a really special 18th birthday present for her.

[quote TryAnotherNickname]@Ginfordinner easy now, I think that makes you a controlling interfering busy body round here! The parents (& girl) must have been so grateful to you[/quote]

I am mom to an 18 and 16 year old daughter. I cannot believe some of the responses here!
I am 100% with the poster quoted below. You absolutely need to follow your instinct regards this holiday!

Letting your 17 year old go away with 3 people you've never met? Abroad? ( Missing school and right now when travel is very dubious ) ?

After her knowing them a few months?

( or you have met the mother , once, and it was " she's drunk ok" ) ?

Without a phone call, courtesy introduction or even hello?

Are posters joking???????

You know this is not a good idea OP. Go with your instinct.

He's not her boyfriend.

He's someone who has picked on a niaive and uncertain young girl who probably felt a bit 'left out' at not yet having a boyfriend. He's trying to argue, gaslight and bully her into being the kind of girlfriend he wants. His parents are colluding in this.

However. You can't MAKE someone (your dd) see this. She has to come to her own conclusions. Give her permission to go but also give her the tools to stand up to the bullying arsehole that she's currently attached to (maybe because she thinks no other boys will want her?)

Strengthen her self esteem and I guarantee the holiday will never happen. She will have dumped his abusive arse long before.

Or she could pay for the holiday and see how quick her DD is dumped once they get the cash.

[quote cinderelly]@Nanny0gg

1. We have not met the boyfriend. He never turns up.
2. DD is in full time education, we would pay the holiday.
3. She has fallen out with 2 friends that met him because they disliked him and hasnt introduced him to anyone else.

3 out of 10+ red flags there.[/quote]
Well I wouldnt be paying so that solves your problem.

You have a bunting's worth of red flags

@jessstan2

When she is 18 she can go where she likes. At the moment she can go and stay at her boyfriend's house quite legally.

I understand how you feel, I'm sure I wouldn't like it. However your opposition is only going to fuel her determination. Why not just play it cool. A lot can happen in the next three months.

Agree with this. You need to chill.

@Zaphodsotherhead

He's not her boyfriend.

He's someone who has picked on a niaive and uncertain young girl who probably felt a bit 'left out' at not yet having a boyfriend. He's trying to argue, gaslight and bully her into being the kind of girlfriend he wants. His parents are colluding in this.

However. You can't MAKE someone (your dd) see this. She has to come to her own conclusions. Give her permission to go but also give her the tools to stand up to the bullying arsehole that she's currently attached to (maybe because she thinks no other boys will want her?)

Strengthen her self esteem and I guarantee the holiday will never happen. She will have dumped his abusive arse long before.

Agree. He's not her boyfriend, he's a near stranger.

Whoever referred to his family as riffraff was spot on.

*From what little you know OP and you have very little to go on.....

you could presume there will be lots of drinking on that holiday.

Your DD could be in a very pressurised situation in that Villa.

Just NO.*

It’s not the holiday that would worry me, it’s the drama in the relationship. He sounds like he’s controlling and manipulating her and that she’s already a bit scared of him. You need to be the voice of sanity here. I’d be tempted to agree to the holiday, if you can do that without paying up front, then hope that with your support she sees him for who he is before December. The holiday has become a focal point but it’s getting her to see how destructive the relationship is that should he your absolute focus.

@bluebeck Have you read the thread?

She constantly blames herself and persuades herself its just friendly banter when he puts her down for her clothes, her education, her IG posts. She even had a secret IG account from him. He looked in her phone, found it and left her sobbing in town after he told her it was over because she didn't tell him.

She has fallen out with 2 friends that met him because they disliked him and hasnt introduced him to anyone else.

I used the chance to say hello and introduce myself. I was met by a very drunk and hostile mother. My daughter was drunker than id expected and the only thing the mother said to me was "shes had a drink ok!"

Constant weekly dramas. We have asked to meet him but she kept making excuses.

She came home from college tonight absolutely sobbing her heart out because her boyfriend has 'flipped' saying we are too controlling and she should just go because she is 18.

Do you really think that she should "chill" when her 17 year old is going through all this a couple of WEEKS into a relationship?