To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

I decided as a teenager in the mid-1980s that the world was too shitty a place to bring children into. The following 35 years have done nothing to change my opinion.

I don't think the world is a lost cause. I don't think things will be that horrific in my child's lifetime. She has cousins so will have a strong network of people when I'm gone. We have money in the family so there's a bit of a buffer for her. She should be able to have a home and education for example. It sounds very narcissistic but I do think I can make a human who is very kind and empathic and who can make a difference.

@UnshakenNeedsStirring

"Not an intelligent choice, I wouldn't be having any kids now."

Well done! Make your own choices, do what's best for your own life!
But Jesus Christ, please stay out of my vagina, uterus and lifestyle choices. Everyone can make their own independent decisions.

I remember the panic in the 80s we were all supposed to be dead now.

@Bluemooninmyeyes1 useful comment there!

It was obviously an exaggerated comment.... but coming from a anxious first time mum when posts like these do not help.

I don't usually comment on posts like these but this infuriated me. Mumsnet is not the right audience as others have mentioned below... given the anxiety that pregnant women have at the best of times!

Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them?

At what point in history were children being born into an entirely benevolent world in which there was absolutely no risk of future suffering?

Because I feel like I was put on this earth to be a mother.

No issues with people who make different choices, it's their business.

Nothing else could ever make me feel as happy and fulfilled as being a mother does.

Most countries are actually experience severely declining populations, so the 'too many people' argument is just a phrase being rehashed without much investigation.

The climate argument is more nuanced but it depends whether you think we can do anything to change it (we can hope!) and also what you think constitutes a life worth living or well lived. As everyone else has said there's never been a point in all of human history where suffering and war and famine and horrific things haven't occurred. We are actually living in a period of v wonderful quality of life for the vast majority.

'Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years'

Give over.

There have always been catastrophes in the past. However nothing that will certainly cause worldwide disaster that is irreversible. Climate change is going to be catastrophic. That’s the difference. Plus privacy is being rapidly eroded until we become a virtual police state. It’s happening. I have three kids, and was looking forward to grandchildren. I am feeling now it would be stupid for my children to have their own children. They feel the same.
Those who merrily go on their way oblivious are ignoring the facts.

Selfish gene innit?
Humans have reproduced throughout the very worst periods of history, no matter what horrors their offspring will face..

They. Just. Don't. Care.

People don't care about the quality of life, so long as their genes go on in life (of questionable quality) - the COVID restrictions people are willing to go through prove that.

We're all descended from those people who've reproduced despite life being nasty, brutish and short. And, anyone who thinks outside the reproductive box essentially Darwins themselves out of the genepool so those thinking genes aren't passed on!

@ktsc89 the world is massively overpopulated so I don’t think the human race has any worries about becoming extinct any time soon.

Well if everyone today decided not to reproduce then humans would be extinct in, what 85 years? Maybe 100ish for the last few to die out. Or maybe considerably less seeing as tomorrow’s babies may not make it to 85 if the population diminishes to the point of no doctors etc. I’d say 85 years is pretty “soon”.

Also all these "the world is shit" comments - it always has been and always will be simultaneously awful and beautiful. You've got to pick a version to focus on and fight against the bad stuff!

Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years...

Well, for starters, most people don't believe that to be true. I certainly don't. I don't have children, but fears over climate change had nothing to do with that decision.

I wouldn't bring a child into this world.

Oh, and people mistake a fear of death for the idea that they really enjoy life.

Most are kidding themselves, I reckon!

I don’t think that the OP is. The only one to think that way.
My dcs are late teens. The worry about climate change wasn’t what it is now. But I worry about what their future will because I believe it’s going to be crap.

Would I do it if I was 30yo, knowing what I know now? Tbh I don’t know. Reproductive instincts are strong. And women are still judged on their ability to have children and become a mother.

Well some of these kids are going to be the leaders and decision makers of the future. Why not bring up children to know about the environment, poverty and and the futility of war?
Bring up children to be good global citizens and we may have a different future than you’re imagining.

@TikkaBoo I really enjoy life. I've come from a lot of difficulty, but I'm eternally grateful that I could push through and come out the other side. Not everyone dislikes being alive!

Do you not enjoy life @TikkaBoo?

Life was monumentally shit when human beings first evolved, yet they kept right on reproducing. For hundreds of generations they were lucky to make it into their twenties. And still they kept bringing more humans into the world. Maybe everyone should just stop now and the human race can die out. Problem solved.

Because I'm a selfish fucker and I don't give a shite about the planet., which isn't true but that's what you're getting at? No?

Because I feel like I was put on this earth to be a mother.

If you have a daughter, and she feels the same, then who is actually living?
It just seems like you exist to make more, who exist to make more, who exist to make more....

The question the op asks is actually a very old one. Is the pain that goes with existence worth suffering in order to exist? And, is it morally right to inflict this on children who have no say?

This was a question asked by ancient Greeks. It actually is not, as people tend to think, a rational reaction to climate change and the state of the world...or at least, not the modern world. Antinatalism has been around at least since ancient times.

I doubt everyone alive right now will be able to solve the world's problems and help to significantly make this world a better place. It takes new brains to solve old problems some times. If it's so bad why don't we just all commit suicide? I think you're verging on the edge if not in depression, not being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel x