To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

[squeekums]

Those of you who mention people have always had kids even in hard times- women didn't have access to contraception like we do now and they also did not have the rights we do today- women were raped by their husbands etc.
I think today we know better and our reproductive choices should reflect that.
Why should women be told what they should do with their body for the environment? Its our body, our choice. Just like i dont subscribe to the one for mum, one for dad, one for country that the aus government has spouted before, i dont think climate should be used as a thing to tell women YET AGAIN what we should do with our body.
Its a personal CHOICE
Also head rural, access to contraception and abortion isnt as easy as youd think in some parts. Nor is it suitable for all women.
If your so set on women shouldnt have kids, lobby for FREE contraception AND abortion, support FULL sex education in schools.
Dont tell women what they should do with their body
Women are STILL raped by their husbands. So that point is irrelevant and just another one of your big hysterical claims to try sway women. Rape happens kids or not.

Children today will not have the quality of life that their parents had and face a very bleak future

Where is your proof, like actual evidence? My quality of life is better than my parents yet ive grown up through recession of the 90s in Aus, the same doom and gloom climate stuff has been spouted for years, 20 years ago we were as good as told we would be burning up by now, yet here we are

Life and technology evolve, how are you certain that its a bleak future? Your simply not and your just trying to get people to buy into your doom and gloom outlook of the world.

[Alabamawhirly1]

All these people not having kids just because of climate change are gonna kick themselves of their death bed of everything turns out to be just fine.

After all, weren't we all gonna die from a hole in the ozone layer a few years ago, and ebola and aids. Wasn't the cotton mill, and the printing press and the automated plow gonna make jobs obsolete.

Call me nieve, but I honestly think we will change our ways if it means total destruction of the earth. We have the ability and the resources to live in harmony with the earth - we just need the will.

But I'm sceptical of anyone that says they're not having any kids purely for environmental reasons. Even op admits she can't have them for genetic reasons - she's just using fear of the future to try and make others feel bad and herself feel better.

[lynsey91]

@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators sorry but I would say the majority of women are definitely NOT thinking about climate change when they get pregnant/have children.

In fact, as I said before, it seems many don't think anything other than "I want a baby" or "it's the normal thing to do". Add to that all the "accidents" and where exactly are all the concerned intelligent women actually thinking about the enormity of bringing a child into the world?

When people ask why we chose not to have children (because they are so rude and I have never asked anyone why they chose to have children) we have mentioned climate change and overpopulation as one of the reasons and, almost always, have been met with blank and/or puzzled looks

One neighbour who has 3 children (2 of whom she admits were "accidents") said she had never once thought about her childrens' futures other than seeing herself with grandchildren!

[lynsey91]

@Alabamawhirly1 ONE of the reasons we chose not to have children was climate change, another was overpopulation but there were a few reasons.

I won't be kicking myself on my death bed if everything is fine because (a) things may not be that bad by the time I die (b) things are not going to be fine for ever (c) me and DH have no regrets whatsoever choosing not to have children

Quite likely all those who believe everything is going to be rosy will be the ones kicking themselves and possibly long before their deathbed

[SerenDippitty]

Is it so unrealistic to think that jobs are going to get scarce because of IT/AI and automation, and ever more skilled and specialised? Not in the current generation of children’s lifetimes, but their children and grandchildren.

[Hardbackwriter]

ONE of the reasons we chose not to have children was climate change, another was overpopulation but there were a few reasons.

This is completely disingenuous. You post constantly all over MN (which is a separate issue in itself, and appears to be some sort of pathological compulsion) about how awful having children must be and how glad you are you didn't. Pretending that you made some sort of selfless sacrifice by not having children for the wider good of the climate is laughable.

[MsTSwift]

Also you could drive yourself mad - and I speak as someone who is concerned environmentally (try to use train not plane had 2 kids not 3 refillables, reuseable nappies mooncup etc) but probably drop in ocean. But seeing humans as parasites I mean what is the end goal?! A perfect natural deserted planet with no humans?! What’s the point!

[aSofaNearYou]

YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

Again, none of what you've said makes it seem in any way likely that children will be angry at their parents for having them, even if they broadly agree that decreasing the population is a good idea. I think people on this thread are expecting way too much in terms of people's selfless interest in the environment if they think that a majority of children would genuinely prefer to have never existed so that the environment could be that tiny bit better.

And in terms of the future being so bleak that they would all wish they had never been born, that is when it seems a bit ridiculous when you look back at what children have lived through in the past. This might be the worst time in history in terms of the environment but it certainly isn't in virtually every other way that contributed to quality of life. However bad the environment gets, most people would still rather live in the time they live in that not live at all. I just cannot understand why anyone would expect differently.

[MsTSwift]

Humans are very resilient. Dh family member fought on the Russian front in WW2 famously hellish. He died recently the most cheerful live life to the full person I’ve evet met. When asked what it was like he would just say “cold”.

[SleepingStandingUp]

@SerenDippitty

Is it so unrealistic to think that jobs are going to get scarce because of IT/AI and automation, and ever more skilled and specialised? Not in the current generation of children’s lifetimes, but their children and grandchildren.

So at what generation should we stop everyone having kids?

[Alabamawhirly1]

@lynsey91 - but you're admitting that climate change was just a factor and you woulndt have had them anyway. I was clearly referring to people who say climate change / the future of mankind is their only reason for not having children.

So a. Clearly you won't regret not having kids because you obviously don't want them regardless.
B. I would still rather be alive, even if things arnt as great as they were for the previouse post ww2 generations - then not exist. I'm pretty sure most sain people feel the same way.

[India999]

Bloody hell

[Aerial2020]

Have you posted the same on dadsnet?

[user1467300911]

In my social circle, those now in their 40s and 50s who have chosen not to have kids work in environmental sectors, or are aid workers / locals who’ve experienced up close the effects of resource wars and famine. Read into that what you will.

[Enrico]

[SerenDippitty]

@SleepingStandingUp I’m not saying we should stop people having kids. Maybe restricting to one or two. Otherwise there will be a huge underclass with no chance of getting work.

[smurfette1818]

OP this is a parenting site, 95% would say being parents is the greatest thing and life is not worth living without their children.

I think even scientists/governments in every country published a formal announcement that they can say with absolute certainty that the earth would no longer livable in 5 years time, people probably would not stop having children, they would defend their decision by saying it is the governments' conspiracy. People most of the times are not logical. We make decisions based on what we want and justify them later by searching for some logical facts to support them.

[smurfette1818]

OP is asking why parents today continue to have children, and whether "they think that everything will be fine and work itself out", or whether they "just don't think about it"?

well said @YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

I fear most of us probably do not think about it and some are angry when asked about it.

[rorosemary]

I'Ve heard too many times over the past decades that the world was ending or humanity was fucked. So did my parents. So did my grandparents. On the whole life only got better actually. I really don't take it seriously.

[XingMing]

It is just possible that planet Earth is passing through a hot period. Temperatures in the Middle Ages are documented as abnormally warm. And the 1890s were abnormally cold.

While it is possible that population size is exacerbating the trend, there is also abundant evidence to suggest that globally, birth rates are falling back. Medicine and female education are moderating population growth. And I do think that it is essential that we rein in our fertility. DH and I have one child, and frankly have lavished all our resources on that one. Who is to say that we were wrong?

[MangoFeverDream]

This is so ridiculous. No better time for children to be born. About 100 years ago, over a third of children never lived to see adulthood. Now THAT is a terrible fate.

Not even third-world countries have child mortality rates that high any more. COVID doesn’t kill children or healthy adults, and climate change is not the apocalypse that some people think it is. We have the technology to adjust and mitigate. (Unless the Greens get their way and destroy our economy and way of life, then we won’t have any hope to survive the changing environment ... ironically)

[SallySeven]

Mango that's the way I look at it too.

Most green initiatives seem wrongheaded.

Diesel vehicles were pushed as more green.
Adding biofuels into petrol led to deforestation.
Burning wood biomass ends in clearing forests in Europe.

It's infuriating.

[Arealnumber]

@DameCelia

Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years
Sorry, you lost me there.
If you want to try again, without the hysteria, I'm sure people would be happy to engage with you.

Unnecessarily patronising comment. Do you not read actual news, what the UN are predicting and warning us of.......or do you just prefer to live in complete denial?

[Arealnumber]

@GreatMindsThinkAlike

I've been thinking the same, OP. I'm mid 30s and half of my friends have decided they won't have children for these reasons too.

Yes, it's a thing, many young women now are choosing childlessness for this reason, with good reason. OP I think the rest are either ignorant, selfish or very brave indeed.