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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand why people are still having kids?

688 replies

Tobythecat · 20/09/2020 19:21

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

OP posts:
Kazakaren · 21/09/2020 10:11

People tend to get disturbed by disturbing things

Should we ban difficult conversations then. In case people find them disturbing and 'unsafe'? Is it too disturbing to people's mental health to debate anymore?

ReeseWitherfork · 21/09/2020 10:12

If we changed our ways, this would no longer be true.
Why does “change our ways” have to equal “stop having children”? This isn’t a discussion about climate change, this is a discussion about whether the human race should continue to exist.

Kazakaren · 21/09/2020 10:13

This is the question the op asked on a site populated mainly by parents or perspective parents. This was a loaded question. Also stating as fact something which most experts (outside insta-land) do not believe will happen. Sorry you disagree. But not a lot we can do about that is there?

Not a lot we can do about your sensitives and desire not to think about difficult things either 🤷‍♀️

ReeseWitherfork · 21/09/2020 10:13

Is it too disturbing to people's mental health to debate anymore?
We should be having debates, debates based on logic and reason and science. Am yet to see that here.

LadyH846 · 21/09/2020 10:14

@ReeseWitherfork

If we changed our ways, this would no longer be true. Why does “change our ways” have to equal “stop having children”? This isn’t a discussion about climate change, this is a discussion about whether the human race should continue to exist.
I don't mean stop having children.

I was thinking more along the lines of: how about we stop damaging the environment, killing off wildlife and killing each other.

KeepSmiling89 · 21/09/2020 10:14

@SleepingStandingUp - 👏👏👏👏👏 I wish I could post a GIF of an applause as your post is the BEST response I've seen on here. As a paediatric speech and language therapist myself, I would be out of a job along with everyone else I work and have worked with.

No more teaching or childcare (or similar) courses either so universities and lecturers would suffer as well (not sure if you mentioned this already).

But hey, at least the planet would be saved.

Did anyone see the movie "Children of Men" back in 2006...set in 2027 where no child has been born in 18 years...? Not using it as an argument by any means but based on these numbers, it looks very likely if we all do as OP says we should...

RegularHumanBartender · 21/09/2020 10:14

We've done a lot of shitty things to this planet though. I still think it would be a better place without the human race

I agree. I never understand why it is said with such horror "What if humans die out". So what if we do? We aren't special, just because we like to think that we are! We are the species that have utterly ruined the planet for all the thousands of others that call it home.

netsybetsy · 21/09/2020 10:16

@ChelseaDaggers

The baby boom after WW2 is often attributed to parents holding off having babies during the depression and then the war.

Also the notion that soldiers coming back from war had had enough of "adventure" and wanted to settle down.

This sort of contradicts what I just said re war zones, because people had fewer babies during those wars. But the UK and the US were never really war zones. Elsewhere in Europe yes, but although this actually used to be my field, I embarrassingly don't know that the baby boom was as pronounced in the rest of Europe as it was in the UK.

Thank you for your reply that's really interesting!

I guess humans need to have hope In order to carry on through anything (or else how would we have got this far?) and having kids is certainly a commitment to the hope that we will endure.

Kazakaren · 21/09/2020 10:16

This isn’t a discussion about climate change, this is a discussion about whether the human race should continue to exist.

At some point the human race won't continue to exist. And the world will continue albeit differently. Really humans life is just a tiny blip in the whole of the earth's existence anyway. Species die out. We will be one of them. Clearly people find this fact too difficult to think about.

ReeseWitherfork · 21/09/2020 10:16

I don't mean stop having children.
You may not but that is quite clearly what OP means.

And you did say this: I still think it would be a better place without the human race. Confused

walking · 21/09/2020 10:17

@Brieandchile and a few others who have commented along the lines that ‘smart people’ need to have children, b/c otherwise only the ‘non-thinking’ ones would. Well, it’s already happening. Meisenberg (The reproduction of intelligence, 2010) showed that if current fertility patterns and environmental factors remain, the proportion of Americans with an IQ of over 130 will reduce by 11.5 % in a generation, and by 37.7 % in a century.

So if the US is anything to go by – and there is little reason why it wouldn’t be for the so called western world (that the rest of the world aspires to follow), the ‘world IQ’ will continue to go down.

(There is not necessarily a strong link between higher IQ and ‘more useful/better human beings’, but it is likely that people who are more capable of thinking can add more benefits to the world – if they choose to. They can also choose to exploit the less thinking ones of course, but statistically, more of them will add benefits.)

And to people writing ‘my western children in London/the UK will be fine’. Well, given the number of places in the world that will become uninhabitable, you may find that the UK, and other habitable places, will be run down with refugees, since we, with our lifestyles, have made their homes inhabitable. It is happening already too.

@frogsincoats, who wrote that many people with Downs syndrome have great, happy lives. Yes, exactly. People who do not ‘think’ and feel responsible for many problems in the world have better, more careless lives, because they do not worry. It is in many ways an enviable position to be in.

@12frogsincoats@startinganew123, your comparison with a mother of one who lectures you on the environmental woes of having four children does not work: although she flies and even if she does not recycle ;-) she will never even come close to the effects you have on the world by having four children. But yes, obviously she’s a hypocrite.

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 10:18

@Kazakaren Confused, what about my responses makes you think I have not given this serious thought? I am arguably better educated on this subject than your average person. I have one degree relating to it and...ok only half of another degree relating to it, because I switched courses.

Also, should have said experts agree is unlikely to happen in my previous post. Obviously nobody knows what will happen to an individual throughout the course of their life.

SleepingStandingUp · 21/09/2020 10:18

@Kazakaren

This isn’t a discussion about climate change, this is a discussion about whether the human race should continue to exist.

At some point the human race won't continue to exist. And the world will continue albeit differently. Really humans life is just a tiny blip in the whole of the earth's existence anyway. Species die out. We will be one of them. Clearly people find this fact too difficult to think about.

Not at all, but they're a difference to that happening because it happens, and declaring that people should stop having children and cause the end of our population so the earth can recover sooner.
LadyH846 · 21/09/2020 10:21

@RegularHumanBartender

We've done a lot of shitty things to this planet though. I still think it would be a better place without the human race

I agree. I never understand why it is said with such horror "What if humans die out". So what if we do? We aren't special, just because we like to think that we are! We are the species that have utterly ruined the planet for all the thousands of others that call it home.

We definitely aren't special. Unless you mean especially destructive
SleepingStandingUp · 21/09/2020 10:22

@walking did you actually just say people with Down Syndrome don't think? And that having Downs Syndrome is kinda an enviable position to be in??

StoneofDestiny · 21/09/2020 10:22

Can you imagine? Someone once thought it was a good idea to bring Trump into the world. Maybe he was cute as a baby

It’s not him as a baby that was the problem, it’s the millions of idiots who voted for him as adults. (as it is with Johnson)

unmarkedbythat · 21/09/2020 10:23

I have three children and I know this is the worst possible thing I could have done for the environment. I do, fairly often, think about why on earth I brought children into a world facing the issues we are. I do recognise that by having three, I have wiped out the years and years of refusing to engage in unnecessary air travel, not eating meat, recycling, not driving, etc. My carbon footprint is unforgivable large and that is entirely due to having three dc.

When I had my first, I was 24, I had a lot more optimism and less dread. I had a second because I didn't want an only. I had my third because he was totally unplanned and as soon as I knew I was pregnant I knew I couldn't abort. I have aborted in the past, I definitely would abort if I ever became pregnant again, if you look at it with any logic at all I should have aborted then. But I didn't. I had him and I can't regret him at all.

To be honest, as time passes and things seem worse and worse and I have less and less hope for humanity's future, I have started to be glad I had three- if life gets as atrociously hard for humans as I fear, at least they have each other. That's not logical or sensible at all, is it? But it's how I feel.

ChelseaDaggers · 21/09/2020 10:23

[quote ChelseaDaggers]@Kazakaren Confused, what about my responses makes you think I have not given this serious thought? I am arguably better educated on this subject than your average person. I have one degree relating to it and...ok only half of another degree relating to it, because I switched courses.

Also, should have said experts agree is unlikely to happen in my previous post. Obviously nobody knows what will happen to an individual throughout the course of their life.[/quote]
Sorry, in case I wasn't clear here; I have given it considerable thought and I disagree with you and the op.

This is why this thread has irked me somewhat. Everyone assumes if we don't all fall all over the place catastrophising and wishing we'd never been born or had children yada yada, we must not know anything about the subject Confused. Nope, sorry.

LadyH846 · 21/09/2020 10:24

@ReeseWitherfork

I don't mean stop having children. You may not but that is quite clearly what OP means.

And you did say this: I still think it would be a better place without the human race. Confused

Well I do think it's true, this planet would be better off without us.

But, we're here. A mass suicide pact isn't really the way forward.

neversayalways · 21/09/2020 10:26

The baby boom after WW2 is often attributed to parents holding off having babies during the depression and then the war

I thought it was because so many young men were not physically around to be procreating as they were fighting in the war? Then they came back and started shagging again.

walking · 21/09/2020 10:27

[quote SleepingStandingUp]@walking did you actually just say people with Down Syndrome don't think? And that having Downs Syndrome is kinda an enviable position to be in??[/quote]
The poster I responded to said that people with Downs syndrome can have great lives. I agree. My putting 'think' in '', and the rest of the sentence, should indicate the meaning of what I wrote: that few people who have lesser 'comprehension' (not sure of the correct clinical word) have the mental capacity to think about/act on/worry about/be frightened about the state of the world and its development over the next 10-20-30-40 years.

neversayalways · 21/09/2020 10:27

Well I do think it's true, this planet would be better off without us
But, we're here. A mass suicide pact isn't really the way forward

Grin
neversayalways · 21/09/2020 10:30

It’s not him (Trump) as a baby that was the problem, it’s the millions of idiots who voted for him as adults. (as it is with Johnson)

Neat illustration of exactly why people keep voting the way the left don't want them to.

neversayalways · 21/09/2020 10:31

You can't deny that in becoming the top species

Top species? I dunno, grass is doing pretty well.

NotBehindTheRadiatorPlease · 21/09/2020 10:31

Every generation has faced some kind of hardship/looming crisis. Yes, more jobs will be automated in the future, but that doesn't mean more jobs won't be created. 20/30 years isn't that far away, most of us posting will likely still be around. So were our parents wrong to have us?

You cannot predict what will happen in the future. I think you're being more than a little hysterical, and it was very poor form to post this on a forum that is overwhelmingly made up of people who are already parents.

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