To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

PablosHoney
if you can’t take that final step, which I truly hope you never do

Thanks - that actually means a lot, especially as I'm sure you abhor my views! You're a good person.
I can assure you I'm in no danger though - as I said, my determination to not have children is kind of what 'let me off the hook' to try and have a good time. My death will come - so I might as well try to enjoy life before then.
I guess in many ways it's similar to the reasons that people want children....

Calm down will you.
As PP said, if we don’t reproduce, what’s the point? Life was always filled with war, famine, general suffering. The point is to move forward.

[quote 12frogsincoats]@sharpeidiem No one is making that assumption. As I said, it is your choice, and it is nothing to do with thinking people with mental health issues or disabilities 'shouldn't exist.' All I know is that I have been in such low, terrible places that I have made very serious attempts on my life that have left lasting problems, and if there is even the smallest chance of a 'small person,' who I would love and care about like nothing else, going through that as well, I would like to stop that, and the only guarantee of it not happening is by not conceiving them in the first place.[/quote]
Like I've said - YOU do that. That's absolutely fantastic for you as a personal choice, I will never ever advocate for people to have children if they don't want them or can't support them. My point is - I shouldn't have to defend myself for wanting children, especially for the reasons of me having MH issues or autism etc etc. I respect your choice to not have children if that's what you want to do, so I'm asking everyone to please respect the choice of those who do want children. Neither is inherently selfish or immoral, providing you do your best with both.

[quote sharpeidiem]**@PablosHoney* @ChelseaDaggers I'm doing alright amongst the bullshit, I just really really* hope whoever comes along this thread later doesn't feel like shit for being genetically inferior or whatever nonsense is being spouted.

For anyone else who is talking about MH conditions and autism - both have been a difficult part of life for me, yes. They make social interactions quite difficult and I need a slew of coping mechanisms to keep pulling through. However, I'm also quite an empathetic person, I am highly concentrated and I try and my best to prevent anyone else from with MH or any kind of difficulty.

As much as you would not have had me, I'm glad to be alive and I'm glad to have the blessing of bringing children into the world.[/quote]
Respectfully, you are the only one who has mentioned autism on this thread.

@SerenDippitty you are enough in yourself, your worth doesn’t relate to procreation, nature isn’t discriminatory and bad stuff happens to good people too.

it is nothing to do with thinking people with mental health issues or disabilities 'shouldn't exist

Exactly. I think I have the same right to exist as any one else.
It's just that - like the OP - I can't imagine wanting even the slightest chance that I might have to watch my own children suffer in the same way.

Joining this thread late and it looks like it's taken a quite dark turn however I wanted to add this as I think it's important.

I am a teacher. Young people of today aren't like us, the environment and climate are at the forefront of their thinking. They will change the world and they will save it. That's my opinion.

Education is the key. Things don't stop overnight but they do improve with education. My son is 9 and he is furious when we leave lights on in the house. When I was 9 I wouldn't have given a toss. Is that enough in itself? No but if he's better than me surely it's better that he's here and trying to change things.

We could stop and ultimately the planet might be saved but humanity would be wiped out. It's a debate for another day but surely the best solution is to change our behaviours and I think the younger generation have and will. I trust them.

I haven’t read the FT, but the OP is right.
I have children and I only became aware of the true state of the world a few years ago.
I can’t regret having them, because they are the joy of my life and I would have missed out on so much by not having them, but the fear and distress that I feel when considering their future..
So many people think ‘someone’ is doing something about Climate Change, that it will all work out🤷‍♀️
I’m in a few support groups for similar-minded parents on Facebook, which helps, but I wish I could back to ignorance sometimes.

@TikkaBoo

PablosHoney if you can’t take that final step, which I truly hope you never do

Thanks - that actually means a lot, especially as I'm sure you abhor my views! You're a good person.
I can assure you I'm in no danger though - as I said, my determination to not have children is kind of what 'let me off the hook' to try and have a good time. My death will come - so I might as well try to enjoy life before then.
I guess in many ways it's similar to the reasons that people want children....

Very glad to read this^^. So...why would someone who is relieved not to have to have babies, let off the hook and loving life a lot more, come on to a parenting forum and join in a thread berating parents for...being parents? If you are happy with your choice, fantastic! Couldn't be happier for you! Could you maybe find it possible to respect other people's choices, as we respect yours and if you cannot, then maybe don't come on to a PARENTING forum?

I wanted children desperately but decided not to Which is a perfectly valid choice. Just as choosing to have children is. It doesn't make you better than anyone else despite how superior you clearly feel.

@12frogsincoats

"Do you have undesirable traits @sharpeidiem? Or do you think poor health is preferable?"

Autism is a commonly used "undesirable trait". Additionally, if we're going to talk about how anxiety being a good enough reason to sterilise yourself (and / or a good reason to hate your mother if she thought you might be anxious) then I'm willing to demonstrate that some of my "undesirable traits" exist and yet I am still a happy and content person, with a fulfilling life.

Who needs extinction rebellion eh

I agree with you op, but as you can see from the responses you have got, it never goes down well on here.

I'm also not having kids, and a huge factor is the environment (not that this is ever deemed acceptable a reason!)

We've had Covid, the floods at the start of the year etc etc. Life is only going to get harder, but then lots of people tell themselves is ok because they recycle.

Having a baby is one of the worst things for the environment, but it's a fact that nobody wants to accept.

More people need to think before they breed.

Oh is the world ending again?

This type of thinking op is as old as the hills.

My great grandma warned us against people predicting the end of the world.

She also would say she had lived in wonderful times (despite huge personal losses in her life that would have felled me I believe.) Always in her presence I felt peace and love.

Thanks op in this slightly miserable time for reminding me of a fantastic (yet very ordinary) woman.

@rorosemary by the looks of things! Nostradamus is on here

We've had Covid, the floods at the start of the year etc etc. Life is only going to get harder, but then lots of people tell themselves is ok because they recycle.

Or...people think that life is still worth living even if it's harder? And we are talking COMPARITIVELY harder than it is now, which actually is a pretty cushy existence for those of us in the west. Even those who believe they have it hard here, have it easy compared to other places. I'm sure people in harsher environments have reason to live too.

Having a baby is one of the worst things for the environment, but it's a fact that nobody wants to accept.

Everyone accepts this. It is not the 'gotcha' moment people seem to think it is. It gets said on EVERY thread about the environment. Also, it isn't as simple as this. In the UK, a single, childless person produces a bigger carbon footprint than large family in parts of Africa. Lifestyle comes into it. It isn't purely a numbers game.

More people need to think before they breed.

This I agree with. Don't do it just because it's expected of you.

"Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years"

Because the last 2000 years have been fucking peachy for 99% of the globe 😂😂😂😂

@Feelingconfused2020

Agreed! I teach a class, English for Eco-Energy, at our local uni and those young engineers are not afraid of the future at all. They are optimistic, many of them want kids (more the boys than the girls funnily enough!) and pretty sensible about things. Even in my worst depressive episodes I can have an energetic, fun 3 hours with them, this is my favourite class because they are so clever and positive.

I teach a lot of young people, every year, in HE and in industry apprenticeships and them + my kids just make me happy and keep my spirits up. If I hung around with grumpy oldie wonks all the time I'd have stuck my head in the oven by now!

@Stinkyguineapig

I've got friends that decided not to have kids for similar reasons. They go on more foreign holidays and short haul flights that anyone else I know. 🤷‍♀️

And yet their carbon footprint is much much less than someone who even decided to have one child.

(Childfree btw)

@Washyourhands48, that only applies to those of us living in the west. Compared to parts of Africa, you are many times worse than a single person there. So, in those parts of Africa, where birth rates are ACTUALLY high, unlike here where we are at below replacement levels, a large family will do less damage than you in your childfree state. So, lifestyle definitely makes a difference.

And to add to that, when people argue that the rights of someone (even someone who is CHILDFREE ), to go on long haul flights for holidays, transcend the rights of people to have say in if they reproduce, I always question that.

[quote ChelseaDaggers]@Washyourhands48, that only applies to those of us living in the west. Compared to parts of Africa, you are many times worse than a single person there. So, in those parts of Africa, where birth rates are ACTUALLY high, unlike here where we are at below replacement levels, a large family will do less damage than you in your childfree state. So, lifestyle definitely makes a difference.[/quote]
What’s all this irrelevant shite about Africa got to do with my post? I was referring to here, in the Western World anyway. 🤦‍♀️

What’s all this irrelevant shite about Africa got to do with my post? I was referring to here, in the Western World anyway. 🤦‍♀️

Because the fact that there is such a huge disparity between the carbon a westerner produces and what someone in parts of Africa produces, implies that lifestyle is a factor, rather than it being purely a numbers game. Hope that's easier for you to follow now ?