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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand why people are still having kids?

688 replies

Tobythecat · 20/09/2020 19:21

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

OP posts:
LeaLoo82 · 20/09/2020 22:21

@PablosHoney share your secrets!

ChelseaDaggers · 20/09/2020 22:22

If we had 'successfully' bred out all autism and MH issues we may have had no Alan Turing, no John Nash, no Abraham Lincoln, no Sylvia Plath, no Ernest Hemingway, no Vincent van Gogh.

madcatladyforever · 20/09/2020 22:22

I have just one child and my son doesn't want children, neither does his partner. We are the end of the line and I'm glad.

PablosHoney · 20/09/2020 22:23

Well the brand I swear by is Xen tan and I find it fool proof, it also smells like cherry bakewells, make sure you get classic dark.

Crazyoldmaurice · 20/09/2020 22:23

I know I'll get given a biscuit but it never fails to completely baffle me as to why people come on to MUMSnet to post stuff like this? Are there no other forums to hang out for the sanctimonious 'end is nigh' among us who want a gold star for not reproducing? Of all the places to go why here?

ChelseaDaggers · 20/09/2020 22:23

@sharpeidiem

Okay *@TikkaBoo* YOU practise eugenics on yourself then. Don't have kids, don't carry on your bloodline, don't do anything. I have close Jewish family, so I'm not willing to discuss Eugenics with you without getting upset.

@PablosHoney On a lighter note, clearly you are the genetically blessed and should spread those genetics so we can have a glistening golden society.

Omg I'm so sorry for this thread, seeing you are part Jewish as well! So sorry. Cannot believe mumsnet let this shit stand.
12frogsincoats · 20/09/2020 22:23

@PablosHoney

What is difficult about taking your own life, the method or actually going through with it?
Both.
RickJames · 20/09/2020 22:23

@sharpeidiem

Don't stress about people who know nothing. MH issues don't necessarily affect your children. The genetic element is there but it takes something to trigger it generally. I'm not stressed about my genetic legacy, if I wanted to get all eugenical and Hitlerish then I'd say mine had loads of great inheritances. There's a chance they'll struggle but I'm just kind to them, love them, support them, unlike what my lovely parents decided to do to me. Genetics might load the gun but environment pulls the trigger. You are perfect just as you are, please believe me.

TikkaBoo · 20/09/2020 22:24

What is difficult about taking your own life, the method or actually going through with it?

Both, I think.
I'm able to out-think the desire to reproduce, and a number of other monkey-brain selfish/gene stuff.
Never managed to top myself though.

ReeseWitherfork · 20/09/2020 22:24

It's used in animals - there are currently campaigns against The Kennel Club to stop its breeding requirements for bulldogs which mean that the animals cannot breathe, and King Charles Spaniels who's heads are so small that they have excruciating fits as their brains don't fit.
I believe those breeding practices ended about 10 years ago?

sharpeidiem · 20/09/2020 22:25

[quote 12frogsincoats]@sharpeidiem Great attempt at twisting our words. You are talking about people who have admitted to having mental health problems themselves, and as you have stated you're only a teenager, have probably dealt with them a lot longer than we have.

NO ONE is saying you can't or shouldn't have children if you have mental health problems. All I am saying is that if you have been through an entire life of suffering, and are aware it runs in your family, why would you want to put your children through the same thing? Personally, I would never wish what I have been through upon another human, child or adult, and that is why I, personally, will not be having children.[/quote]
Here's the thing though - my problems are valid at any age. I could be depressed at eight years old and they'd be just as valid as yours at 50 or whatever (don't know, I'm using an example).

I'm willing to take the risk of my child hypothetically suffering because the possibility of them having the same genetic factors is constantly depleting, because I will devote all of my energy and resources into supporting them for whatever they need - mental health conditions or not, and because I know from firsthand experience that mental illness doesn't automatically set you up for a shit life.

Don't have kids then. But nobody has the right to assume I'm a shittier or morally worse off person because I choose to spend a good chunk of my life raising small people. This is my life, this is yours, let's leave that line in the sand.

PablosHoney · 20/09/2020 22:25

Why do you think that is @TikkaBoo?

TikkaBoo · 20/09/2020 22:25

I'll state it again - eugenics is for animals - not humans.

PablosHoney · 20/09/2020 22:26

@sharpeidiem you’ve been remarkably patient, great parenting trait right there

sharpeidiem · 20/09/2020 22:27

@ChelseaDaggers @RickJames Thank you both

WatershipDown7 · 20/09/2020 22:27

@DameFanny

Because people don't for the most part comprehend the totality of the damage we've done to the environment and how increasingly quickly we're reaching each next tipping point
Yes to this
TikkaBoo · 20/09/2020 22:27

Why do you think that is @TikkaBoo?

Not sure. Perhaps because the other stuff is not doing things (absence of action) whereas suicide is an act?

SerenDippitty · 20/09/2020 22:27

I couldn’t have children but my sadness about that is mixed with relief.

ChelseaDaggers · 20/09/2020 22:27

[quote RickJames]**@sharpeidiem

Don't stress about people who know nothing. MH issues don't necessarily affect your children. The genetic element is there but it takes something to trigger it generally. I'm not stressed about my genetic legacy, if I wanted to get all eugenical and Hitlerish then I'd say mine had loads of great inheritances. There's a chance they'll struggle but I'm just kind to them, love them, support them, unlike what my lovely parents decided to do to me. Genetics might load the gun but environment pulls the trigger. You are perfect just as you are, please believe me.[/quote]
Yes, this.

My mom had serious MH issues. I and my siblings do not. She is now dead. Died quite young and I remember her as the most wonderful person. I am so glad she was my mum and that I had the privilege of knowing her. Her MH issues barely feature in my evaluation of her and how amazing she was. I really hope this thread hasn't done too much damage to you or anyone else @sharpeidiem. Can't believe it has been allowed to stay.

Glad you found each other @12frogsincoats and @TikkaBoo. Good for you. Now maybe you can go and find a forum which isn't primarily for parents where you can enjoy each other's company? Just a suggestion.

CoronaBollox · 20/09/2020 22:28

God the dramatics. People have babies all the time. During wars, extreme poverty and other difficult circumstances. It will never change, plus we need people to have kids to keep the world moving. Paying in to pensions, becoming healthcare professionals etc. Who else will you vent to when you're old and grey, still moaning that after you were born people dared to reproduce.

I cringe when people come out with corkers like "human race deserves to die we have killed the planet, let it have a fresh start" Well you first then let me know how fun that is for you...

Also sod the kids what's happening in 20 to 30 years?? Il only be late 40s early 50s.

GinWithASplashOfTonic · 20/09/2020 22:28

@Funkypolar

Strange thing to post on a forum called Mumsnet.
I thought this too!!!
12frogsincoats · 20/09/2020 22:28

@sharpeidiem No one is making that assumption. As I said, it is your choice, and it is nothing to do with thinking people with mental health issues or disabilities 'shouldn't exist.' All I know is that I have been in such low, terrible places that I have made very serious attempts on my life that have left lasting problems, and if there is even the smallest chance of a 'small person,' who I would love and care about like nothing else, going through that as well, I would like to stop that, and the only guarantee of it not happening is by not conceiving them in the first place.

PablosHoney · 20/09/2020 22:29

@TikkaBoo do you have people round you that it would affect, I’m just wondering if maybe life doesn’t feel entirely pointless to you if you can’t take that final step, which I truly hope you never do.

sharpeidiem · 20/09/2020 22:31

@PablosHoney @ChelseaDaggers I'm doing alright amongst the bullshit, I just really really hope whoever comes along this thread later doesn't feel like shit for being genetically inferior or whatever nonsense is being spouted.

For anyone else who is talking about MH conditions and autism - both have been a difficult part of life for me, yes. They make social interactions quite difficult and I need a slew of coping mechanisms to keep pulling through. However, I'm also quite an empathetic person, I am highly concentrated and I try and my best to prevent anyone else from with MH or any kind of difficulty.

As much as you would not have had me, I'm glad to be alive and I'm glad to have the blessing of bringing children into the world.

SerenDippitty · 20/09/2020 22:31

@Bunkumum

Because I know I’ve got shit hot genes, they’ve made it all the way to me through all those generations of challenges. Only fair I carry them on. Don’t want to let the side down.
Well I couldn’t pass mine on and I do feel I’ve let the side down. Then again perhaps they weren’t worth passing on. Perhaps nature was being wise