To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

Yawn

These threads by the over zealous childfree by choice to save the planet brigade are so boring

You have picked the wrong audience in the UK or the west generally. We have falling reproduction rates as it is, but the wider world is not following suit and being of far greater numbers they will make the difference. I don't agree with you anyway, but just wanted to point out this is a worldwide thing....and the worldviews are very different.

@TikkaBoo

Also, people suggesting those with mental health illnesses should not be allowed to reproduce; that's called eugenics.

Eugenics literally means the improvement of the human race.
That's not a bad thing.
Denying ANYONE the opportunity to reproduce based on your own prejudices? That's what Hitler did, and it's monstrous.
I've never suggested that those with mental health problems shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. That would be monstrous and unethical.

I do however, sincerely wonder at people why people don't enjoy life choose to reproduce.

No, you would never be so unethical. You just come on to parenting forums to bully and harass people with mental health problems for having children. So, so ethical. Thank you man, thank you for being you

Do you have undesirable traits @sharpeidiem? Or do you think poor health is preferable?

You also just tried to explain that eugenics ain't so bad, so forgive me if I think you're a grade a...something I can't call you on here.

Anxiety and mental health issues aren't necessarily hereditary though. I have bad anxiety but none of my parents or grandparents did.

This thread is horrible! Children and new life are the most beautiful things, these little babies are our next generation of doctors, scientists, teachers and engineers. Amazing little people who will change the world.

You cannot say “why do people keep having kids?” and think you’re entitled to condemn them, we have children for one reason - because we fucking want to. End of.

@XingMing

Do you have undesirable traits *@sharpeidiem*? Or do you think poor health is preferable?

@XingMing Sure, I have undesirable traits. I eat a lot of fast food, and I curse like a sailor, and I'm terrible at applying fake tan but here we are. I'm happy, I'm achieving what I want to be achieving and I'm not arguing on a Mumsnet forum for the benefits of Eugenics.

If you're referencing my anxiety or other mental health conditions, sure they're not preferable. They've caused me some pain and difficulty, and I'd probably have an easier time without them. Would I rather be dead? Absolutely not. Am I going to advocate for people with disabilities or mental health conditions to sterilise themselves? Not a fucking chance.

I had 3, youngest is 12, oldest 25. Grandchild no 1 arriving next year.
At the base level. If people stop having kids, who is going to pay your pension in your old age, or for the NHS?
Kids bring joy and hopefully grow up into better people than their parents.

12frogsincoats

I used to feel the same way as you do - and also wouldn't be here if killing yourself was easy!

The way I look at it is - I didn't ask to be here, and so long as I don't bring anyone else here, I might (as ending it prematurely is so hard, but the end will come at some point, and I won't be able to stop it!) as well try to make the most of it!

Not caring about life is actually quite freeing, once you start looking at it this way...

Some of the most important figures in history, from art, literature and politics, and more, had MH illnesses.

@sharpeidiem, I'm so sorry this thread has gone this way and I'm so sorry MNHQ don't do anything about the disgusting posts from scumbags on here.

Exactly @LeaLoo82

Enjoy wiping your own arse aged 90 and incapacitated if there's no future generations. To put it bluntly.

@ChelseaDaggers

Some of the most important figures in history, from art, literature and politics, and more, had MH illnesses.

@sharpeidiem, I'm so sorry this thread has gone this way and I'm so sorry MNHQ don't do anything about the disgusting posts from scumbags on here.

Hi Chelsea, thanks so much

Also terrible at fake tan Sharpeidiem, and I have been slightly anxious about most things for 64 years. But we're still here, and we probably are both quite careful about how we treat people and the environment. I try, at least.

@TikkaBoo I think we think the very same way, your posts make a hell of a lot of sense to me and I'm glad someone else understands!

Yes you two seem very alike.

@XingMing

Also terrible at fake tan Sharpeidiem, and I have been slightly anxious about most things for 64 years. But we're still here, and we probably are both quite careful about how we treat people and the environment. I try, at least.

I am wondering why you are asking me if I have undesirable qualities / if I prefer poor health, and then subsequently mentioning how you are "careful about how we treat people"? Because it seems to me from what you've said that you were originally supporting the idea that I shouldn't exist / be allowed to reproduce ... Correct me if I'm wrong though.

You also just tried to explain that eugenics ain't so bad, so forgive me if I think you're a grade a...something I can't call you on here.

No - I'm saying what's been done in the name of eugenics is horrific - and therefore people have a certain view of it.
Eugenics is the want to reduce suffering by the means of not reproducing genes which cause suffering.
It's used in animals - there are currently campaigns against The Kennel Club to stop its breeding requirements for bulldogs which mean that the animals cannot breathe, and King Charles Spaniels who's heads are so small that they have excruciating fits as their brains don't fit.

However, it's a science that cannot be ethically put into practice with humans without being horrifically , woefully, unethical.
However, humans can voluntarily practice their own form of eugenics without harm. Which is what I'm doing.

Another bad at fake tan here too 🤣

I’m really good at fake tan and will pass that on to my children

@sharpeidiem Great attempt at twisting our words. You are talking about people who have admitted to having mental health problems themselves, and as you have stated you're only a teenager, have probably dealt with them a lot longer than we have.

NO ONE is saying you can't or shouldn't have children if you have mental health problems. All I am saying is that if you have been through an entire life of suffering, and are aware it runs in your family, why would you want to put your children through the same thing? Personally, I would never wish what I have been through upon another human, child or adult, and that is why I, personally, will not be having children.

What is difficult about taking your own life, the method or actually going through with it?

Ageing populations are bad for the economy. Also I've never once thought 'I can't believe my parents didn't think about the world and he potential future when they decided to have me'. Maybe that's just me though.

I've had my fair share of mental illness myself!
I just have a very different way of dealing with it!
For me, deciding to never risk passing it on is what has, essentially, cured me.
I would never say that someone else shouldn't be allowed to reproduce - that's horrific - just that I cannot understand their desire to roll the dice with someone else's life in that way.

I'm pretty sure MN will come along and delete my posts though - don't worry!

Okay @TikkaBoo YOU practise eugenics on yourself then. Don't have kids, don't carry on your bloodline, don't do anything. I have close Jewish family, so I'm not willing to discuss Eugenics with you without getting upset.

@PablosHoney On a lighter note, clearly you are the genetically blessed and should spread those genetics so we can have a glistening golden society.