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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand why people are still having kids?

688 replies

Tobythecat · 20/09/2020 19:21

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

OP posts:
StoneofDestiny · 20/09/2020 21:49

12frogsincoats No, I'm pretty sure it's the hypocrisy on this thread and the amount of people who seem to be void of empathy and kindness that's upsetting me. That, and my apparent inability to conceive a child after years of trying, and then reading horrible threads like this

Always odd that those who try to put people off having children, still hang around themselves to breathe and feed off the planets resources! Why do they think they take precedence?

TikkaBoo · 20/09/2020 21:50

12frogsincoats

I agree with you, and I repeat what I said earlier - it's because
They. Do. Not. Care.

ReeseWitherfork · 20/09/2020 21:50

And the whole “people have been going on about climate change and there have been no ill effects” person can go discuss that with the Pacific Islanders or those who are losing everything in the worst bushfires in a number of countries. Just because it hasn’t affected YOU doesn’t mean it hasn’t killed anyone.

In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did. That’s a 99.7% decline. And that decline occurred over a period when the global population quadrupled. All because of economic advancement.

I’m not necessarily arguing with you but offering some context from your rather hysterics posts

ChelseaDaggers · 20/09/2020 21:50

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ReeseWitherfork · 20/09/2020 21:50

Hysterical post.*

ChelseaDaggers · 20/09/2020 21:51

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WombOfOnesOwn · 20/09/2020 21:52

Apocalyptic climate predictions are BS. Even environmentalists, dedicated ones, know this. Recently read a fantastic book by a man whose environmentalist qualifications are beyond reproach called Apocalypse Never, that explores how pernicious these myths are.

If you're considering getting out of the reproduction game because of climate guilt, I recommend reading that book. The money behind this particular game comes from oil and gas companies, and the "environmental solutions" proposed as properly progressive are often more for their benefit than to prevent any apocalyptic outcome.

CorianderLord · 20/09/2020 21:52

I mean if you think of it this way then all the people who are passionate about climate survival etc won't have kids and pass on their passion to them. So the only adults we'll have will be those born to parents who don't believe it or don't care.

That sounds like a worse future to me.

Dee1975 · 20/09/2020 21:53

So you think everyone in the world should stop reproducing now?
How have we coped the last 2000 years 🤣🤣

AfolMummy · 20/09/2020 21:53

WorraLiberty

She was also absolutely desperate for children and she too decided against it for genetic factors.

Sadly she too has now convinced herself her decision was due to a woman crusade to help the planet and can often be heard finger wagging at parents who made different decisions.

I know someone EXACTLY like this except that they couldn't have the kids they very much wanted as their DH didn't want any.

ChelseaDaggers · 20/09/2020 21:53

@WombOfOnesOwn

Apocalyptic climate predictions are BS. Even environmentalists, dedicated ones, know this. Recently read a fantastic book by a man whose environmentalist qualifications are beyond reproach called Apocalypse Never, that explores how pernicious these myths are.

If you're considering getting out of the reproduction game because of climate guilt, I recommend reading that book. The money behind this particular game comes from oil and gas companies, and the "environmental solutions" proposed as properly progressive are often more for their benefit than to prevent any apocalyptic outcome.

It's also always white, overprivileged, post reproductive men who say we must stop having babies. Because population growth...oh where is that actually happening again? Not in the UK where we are already at below replacement birth levels, but in the developing world.
MagpieSong · 20/09/2020 21:54

Personally, I wonder if the genetic factors mentioned in the OP weren’t there if the decision would be different? Perhaps not. I made my choices for my reasons and because nothing is certain. The world could end before I type this or in a given period of time. We can estimate, but we cannot know. I do find it very weird how many people want to preach about not having children though. I’ve come across it a lot recently. Partly I think I feel that because as someone who was adopted and has worked with traumatised children (and adults), I find it is almost never those people asking and querying who are actively attempting to improve things in the world. For example, most say ‘I wanted kids but didn’t have them because It’s too bad for the environment/too hard for kids to go through this life when global warming is... etc etc’, but few seem to have considered becoming a parent through adoption (often very tough, but very eco friendly) or a foster carer. I also find they often aren’t making any huge effort to be super eco friendly. Obviously those things are blanket statements, there will always be exceptions, so OP forgive me if you’re someone who does, but it is something I’ve noted. I find it strange that it’s difficult to comprehend why someone would generally want children. Firstly, we are a social species based on interacting with each other. That’s our strength as a mammal and one we have continued to grow with as a species to the point we have these wonderfully complex languages and can describe things we’ve never even seen in real life. We thrive on relationships and the parent child relationship is one of those. Secondly, considering how much of the world don’t appreciate climate change etc. its hardly surprising that lots of people have children without it crossing their minds.

Thirdly, it’s quite a westernised question. There are many terrible things that face the human race and in the western world, we are lucky to not have to face some of these and for a majority of us to have to face few of the horrors that others face. Again, there are exceptions, but the majority of the UK is not threatened by starvation with our children dying, we can usually formula feed without too much issue if our breast milk dries up, we can go to town without our children witnessing a Neighbour being stoned etc. Even in very difficult situations, some of us as a race tend to keep having children (Not everyone at all, some make huge efforts to get hold of medication and attempt to prevent or end pregnancy), but the lack of direct threat in places like the UK etc. does not pressurise us to stop.

Anyway, one of things I think is that we never know when we’ll go through trauma. We also do not, by not having children, protect ourselves or others from trauma. It would be traumatic watching the human race die out, because someone somewhere would be ‘the last’. The world ending due to climate change may change people’s minds as it gets closer and very obvious, but the reality is that whether lots of people are dying together or one person close to you dies, that’s traumatic. Most of the time, trauma therapy tries to remind you that you cannot go through life avoiding everything that makes life worth living to attempt to avoid experiencing more trauma. You can take sensible precautions to avoid it, but you can’t stop following what you long for in your life and for some people who’ve longed for children, it’s traumatic not to experience parenthood.

I’ll be quiet now. This post ended up being crazily long.

VinylDetective · 20/09/2020 21:55

@CorianderLord

I mean if you think of it this way then all the people who are passionate about climate survival etc won't have kids and pass on their passion to them. So the only adults we'll have will be those born to parents who don't believe it or don't care.

That sounds like a worse future to me.

Except over population is the biggest contributor to climate change. And kids learn from people other than their parents (thank goodness).
Namechangeme87 · 20/09/2020 21:55

Because we are biologically programmed to . Of course we have free will to make the decision not to . I made a logical Decision to not have more because I like my life as it is now with older dc ( was a young mum ) and enjoy my freedom When they are at their dads . I’m still well within my child bearing years though and feel a bit sad I won’t do it all again etc .

But my reasons for not are my selfish reasons . Not selfless reasons because the economy may be fucked still in 10 years or because of over population etc. And I think that’s true of most people

XingMing · 20/09/2020 21:57

@CorianderLord, I think you make an important point.

I wasn't aware of the eugenics undertone before now, but sometimes I think I wish humans took as much care of their breeding stock as farmers do.

12frogsincoats · 20/09/2020 21:57

@StoneofDestiny

12frogsincoats No, I'm pretty sure it's the hypocrisy on this thread and the amount of people who seem to be void of empathy and kindness that's upsetting me. That, and my apparent inability to conceive a child after years of trying, and then reading horrible threads like this

Always odd that those who try to put people off having children, still hang around themselves to breathe and feed off the planets resources! Why do they think they take precedence?

I agree with you completely which is why I have attempted to take my own life several times. Unfortunately it's not as easy as you'd think.
Newmumatlast · 20/09/2020 21:57

@yolio

Having children is a total challenge and really needs to be planned for.

School catchment
Vaccination,
Danger out there
Total engagement from parents for years and years.

I dunno, it is not an easy decision, but it appears to me that it is very easy for some.

it absolutely shouldn't be an easy decision. For some it clearly is but it shouldn't be as we are talking about life.
Newmumatlast · 20/09/2020 21:58

really sorry to read this. Sending you love and light ❤

PhilSwagielka · 20/09/2020 21:58

I'd just like to point out that babies were born in Nazi death camps. People are going to have kids no matter how hard situations get. And why you felt the need to ask this on a parenting site is beyond me tbh.

sharpeidiem · 20/09/2020 21:58

[quote XingMing]@CorianderLord, I think you make an important point.

I wasn't aware of the eugenics undertone before now, but sometimes I think I wish humans took as much care of their breeding stock as farmers do.[/quote]
So people with undesirable traits shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, is that what you're saying? Because that's what breeding stock involves.

RickJames · 20/09/2020 22:00

@ChelseaDaggers

That made me lol Grin

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 20/09/2020 22:02

There have been many time’s when the world has looked very bleak For many and certainly far far worse than now and there shall be many times in the future the outlook is bleak for many but the world keeps turning and humans keep mating

That’s your choice and reasoning to not have children. I wouldn’t be surprised if you changed your mind

TikkaBoo · 20/09/2020 22:03

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XingMing · 20/09/2020 22:03

I did NOT say not allowed to reproduce. Please do not misquote. Farmers regulate breeding to improve their herds: I am not suggesting that anyone should manage human reproduction.

sharpeidiem · 20/09/2020 22:05

@TikkaBoo

Also, people suggesting those with mental health illnesses should not be allowed to reproduce; that's called eugenics.

Eugenics literally means the improvement of the human race.
That's not a bad thing.
Denying ANYONE the opportunity to reproduce based on your own prejudices? That's what Hitler did, and it's monstrous.
I've never suggested that those with mental health problems shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. That would be monstrous and unethical.

I do however, sincerely wonder at people why people don't enjoy life choose to reproduce.

I can have anxiety and still enjoy life though??

Sometimes I have to sit out and take breaks, or ask the people who I love to do things for me but I'm ultimately a happy person! Do I wish I didn't have anxiety? Yes. Am I going to commit suicide or avoid reproduction because I have anxiety? No.

I'm not even going to respond about the Eugenics shit.

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