To not understand why people are still having kids?

[Tobythecat]

I understand that the urge to reproduce is very strong, but the future looks incredibly bleak (I'm not talking about just covid, but also climate change). I fear for the future and what sort of quality of life people will have, considering Automation/competition over jobs, climate change issues (food/water shortages, extreme weather). Honestly, how can you think that everything will be fine and work itself out, or do you just not think about it? Children today will face unimagineable suffering in the next 20-30 years, how can you justify it to them? I wanted children desperately but decided not to because of the above, plus genetic factors.

People mention the war and how people kept having kids, but the threats we face have never been faced before and are multifaceted. Is existing to suffer better than not existing at all?

And yes, no doubt they will experience the end of society

Why?

@TikkaBoo

I had debilitating depression, that lead to suicidal ideation and suicide attempts. I'm also not far away from being considered a "child" e.g. under 18. Yet here I am advocating for mothers

I have also had depression (not any more though) and anxiety, and I'm advocating for depressed women AND children.

My children would likely have the kind of brain that is also depression and anxiety prone. I recognise that life can often be a struggle. If you've ever been so low as to wish you weren't alive, I don't think it's ethical to make someone else be alive, knowing how painful it can be.

If you're of my ilk, but want the joy of raising a child, adopt. There are plenty that need good homes.

I advocate for both too! However, I know that my depression was not a result of being born - it was to due with my abusive homelife (which I am absolutely NEVER going to repeat.) As soon as I got into a situation where I was loved and supported, I was quickly able to take the steps to improve my mental health.

My children may have similar MH issues that I had - anxiety in my family is definitely genetic. However, I wouldn't be having them if I wasn't willing to dedicate every single day for the rest of my life loving and supporting them and always fighting their corner. I will do absolutely anything to help them, and so I resent the idea that I'm doing it because I'm unfulfilled.

Maybe in the future I will adopt or foster, it's not out of the question. But I'm not willing to accept that I'm a bad person for bringing a child into the world - I know I can help them experience great joy, as much as life is difficult sometimes.

I've done a very bad thing. I had a child with an automation process engineer. Who knows what suffering I have brought on the world!

The world is better for my child being in it, even if it's just my small part of the world and I won't apologise for it.

What a load of twaddle. "20-30 years" lol.

OP get out of your bubble. Talk to people, different kinds of people, different ages, different educations, different lifestyles. And not on wretched social media. Stop reading bloody George Monbiot in the Guardian and live a little

@PumpkinsandAutumnLeaves

12frogsincoats No, I'm pretty sure it's the hypocrisy on this thread and the amount of people who seem to be void of empathy and kindness that's upsetting me. That, and my apparent inability to conceive a child after years of trying, and then reading horrible threads like this.

I'm really sorry to hear about your problems conceiving. Hopefully this thread will encourage you to adopt and give someone else's child the wonderful life I'm sure you would give your own!

And yes, no doubt they will experience the end of society...

Have I missed some news aside from the usual climate change, covid etc somewhere? Some people on here seem certain an end is coming in the next 20-30 years? Wasn't it all supposed to end 20 years ago and then again 10 years ago?

@sharpeidiem

I live with absolutely (to use your word) debilitating anxiety and if I thought my mother had given birth to me despite knowing I would suffer this way, I would truly, truly despise her.

@12frogsincoats I promise there is empathy and kindness and RATIONALITY out here too! Just one stranger sending another stranger a smile and a wave 👋🏻 sorry to hear about your troubles

How could she possibly know that

What a load of shite!

Personally I think that anyone who denies themselves a child that they would actually like to have and are biologically capable of having but genuinely choose not to because of a worry about a future nobody could possibly know for certain is a very sad person.

Human beings have faced uncertainty and adversity for thousands of years but clearly we are an adaptable species who I’m sure will continue to adapt to whatever further adversities we face. In the meantime it is perfectly acceptable for people to have children and bloody well enjoy them for all of the utter joy that they bring. If you manage to raise some happy and kind humans, who knows what they might achieve in the world.

Any first time mums or pregnant ladies reading the OP’s post and the odd one agreeing with it should totally and utterly disregard any such thoughts and feel no guilt or anxiety whatsoever about bringing a child into the world. It is a wonderful experience and lights up many people’s lives. Then they will grow up and if they’re lucky, they’ll be able to experience the same.

Cannot believe anyone could be such an asshole as to post a view like this on a parenting forum. You’re well entitled to your opinion and decision and I hope you manage to find some level of happiness out there somewhere but you have no right to tell anyone with a different opinion to you that they shouldn’t be having children.

@12frogsincoats I promise there is empathy and kindness and RATIONALITY out here too! Just one stranger sending another stranger a smile and a wave 👋🏻 sorry to hear about your troubles
BALLS wrong person. Meant to send that to @PumpkinsandAutumnLeaves

Please ignore me frogs

The question of who is fit to be a parent is a whole other thread.

Having children is a total challenge and really needs to be planned for.

School catchment
Vaccination,
Danger out there
Total engagement from parents for years and years.

I dunno, it is not an easy decision, but it appears to me that it is very easy for some.

I wasn't going to have children because there was going to be a nuclear war. In the 1980s. Obviously there wasn't, and I did have them. Every generation has had some catastrophe looming.

Have I missed some news aside from the usual climate change, covid etc somewhere?
I think we all have, and OP hasn’t been back to enlighten us! Can’t believe someone would tell us the world is ending in a couple of decades but not tell us how.

[quote 12frogsincoats]@sharpeidiem

I live with absolutely (to use your word) debilitating anxiety and if I thought my mother had given birth to me despite knowing I would suffer this way, I would truly, truly despise her.[/quote]
I have debilitating anxiety too and I couldn't hate my mum for that reason! She was abusive as shit for other reasons, but I'm not going to hate or blame her solely for having a child.

Do you feel the same about women who keep their children who have Down Syndrome or Autism, or another form of disability that affects them? There is no guarantee my children will get any of my MH conditions (DH and his family don't have them at all) but if they did, I'd support them through it.

@PablosHoney

How could she possibly know that

Read the posts I'm replying to in which @sharpeidiem states she has debilitating mental health issues and is aware it's genetic. It shocks me that anyone would risk putting another human through an entire lifetime of suffering (which is what severe depression/anxiety so often is) purely for their own selfish reasons.

Unimaginable suffering.... after all of whole human history? Please, don't descend into wetness, and read something about history. All of it is human suffering, wars, plagues, famines, poverty and damned hard labour for almost every individual on the planet. Read about times, as late as the early 20th century, when most families lost half their children to disease before clean water, proper sanitation, vaccinations and antibiotics. And reflect on how soft and easy life is today. Even in LDCs. The population has exploded, not because humans have learned how to breed, but because we now breed and survive to a degree that would have been unimaginable 100 years ago, and it is our success that is killing or at least abusing Earth's resources.

Do you prefer the Earth or humanity? I am not quite sure where I sit in this argument, so I am not venturing a judgement. Earth without humanity would be a paradise, but if there's no intelligent being to value and appreciate it, then it's worth nothing in an indifferent universe.

What a ridiculous OP. If you don't want to have children for whatever reason, that's fine. Don't come on a forum targeted at parents and tell people their children will face 'unimaginable suffering' in the future. I'm not going to take that to heart, but what an unnecessary thing to say. Had I read that in a recent post-partum frame of mind I would have been in bits.

You don't know anything about what the future holds. Make your own choices in life but don't judge others, and don't go around forecasting doom and gloom like it's the writing on the wall when this is a shit year for a lot of people anyway.

I’m with you OP. Extremely happy with my life and chose to have no children for a number of reasons but right now am very happy I made that decision because of the impact on the planet.
Not many people who had children are going to admit that they made a decision that while possibly right for them (and in most cases in the western world for their children) was probably a shit one for the world in general and possibly their grandchildren.
I don’t really care if the human race becomes extinct in the next few hundred years. It would be the best thing for every other fucking species on the planet and I am not selfish enough to think we are the “keepers” of the planet or some special creatures. The thought of this happening makes me sad for the people who will Experience it.
And the whole “people have been going on about climate change and there have been no ill effects” person can go discuss that with the Pacific Islanders or those who are losing everything in the worst bushfires in a number of countries. Just because it hasn’t affected YOU doesn’t mean it hasn’t killed anyone.
This thread makes me realise why so many people have children without thinking about the consequences. Some people have an overwhelming urge. Some are just dicks

I have two small children and have huge worries about the future but they bring so much joy to my world and to those around them. They are happy despite the stresses of the moment and I have no doubt they will face challenges and need resilience but life continues and the human race (like all animals) will adapt and evolve their practices to the world they live in. Everyone’s life is unique so I don’t want my children to relive my exact experience- they will have their own. Not having babies on principle seems like something people could deeply regret particularly if they miss their window of opportunity and (hopefully!) in 5 years the world will look brighter and more optomistic.

Do you prefer the Earth or humanity? I am not quite sure where I sit in this argument, so I am not venturing a judgement. Earth without humanity would be a paradise, but if there's no intelligent being to value and appreciate it, then it's worth nothing in an indifferent universe.

This is beautiful. So poetic. I love it.

@sharpeidiem People with Down's Syndrome and autism often live very happy, fulfilled lives. They are not conditions that automatically cause suffering. Anxiety and depression are.

@12frogsincoats I'm aware there is a risk for them getting anxiety yes - however it has passed over members of my family, and my DH's family has absolutely none so it's a shot in the dark. You don't know what your kids are going to turn out like, but you still decide to support them.

If the doctor said, "Hi, would you like a kid with or without anxiety?" and I asked for them to have it, then it would be correct to condemn me for making a shit choice.

I think the urge to reproduce is stronger than almost any other thought/feeling for a lot of people. I do really wonder why people feel
The need to have more than replacements (ie. more than two) with the world as it is