Rape allegation database

[Roosterbooster99]

Sorry, posting for traffic. To distill, I was raped by a man and I know he has raped other people. All so called Date Rape. I know he has done it to other women before and after what happened to me. But usually when one man rapes a lot of unconnected women, especially after a drink etc the women end up in silos, not knowing he’s done it to others, questioning their own memory, blaming themselves etc, etc, etc.

And I’m sure lots of women, like me, won’t report it. Because it’s her word against his most of the time, and who wants to destroy their lives for 4% convictioncrates.

What I want to do is create an online database. Only visible to staff/administrators, but it would mean if a man was habitually date raping, evidence would build up and flag him.

I’m seriously thinking about s

I have personal experience of someone claiming to be falsely accused three times and counting

I have personal experience of someone claiming to be falsely accused three times and counting

First, let's leave aside the possibility that, y'know, he's a serial rapist (which seems to me far more likely than the alternative, which would be astounding bad luck).

How has it affected him? is he a broken man who has lost his friends, his job, the best years of his life? Interested to know.

@thedancingbear

I have personal experience of someone claiming to be falsely accused three times and counting

First, let's leave aside the possibility that, y'know, he's a serial rapist (which seems to me far more likely than the alternative, which would be astounding bad luck).

How has it affected him? is he a broken man who has lost his friends, his job, the best years of his life? Interested to know.

No he has new friends again now including a new girlfriend his family all stand by him without being terribly outing lets say for example he has in a matter of weeks gone from being with a fiancé to being accused of rape and assault to having a new business new girlfriend new car new phone and soon new place to live

He reinvents himself often he does however tell the job centre he is a broken man....

If my daughter was raped I'd be upset and outraged, if my sons were falsely accused of rape I'd be upset and outraged

I don't have daughters, but I think if one of my sons were raped I would be far more upset than if one of them were falsely accused of rape.

@unmarkedbythat

If my daughter was raped I'd be upset and outraged, if my sons were falsely accused of rape I'd be upset and outraged

I don't have daughters, but I think if one of my sons were raped I would be far more upset than if one of them were falsely accused of rape.

🙄 yes I'd be equally upset and outraged if it happened to one of my sons too but that's not what I was comparing. I rarely get involved in controversial topics on MN and I name change regularly. The singling out of a small part of a wider post to twist and turn and cause unnecessary arguments is typical of MN at times. I'll take my 30 year professional knowledge of safeguarding, domestic abuse and rape and sexual violence (add in personal experiences and those of close friends and family) and sit on it all because there are people here who clearly know so much more than I do and my opinion has no value at all compared to the wisdom of so many others.

@shotby3armedbastards you were comparing the rage and upset you would feel if a child of yours was rape with the rage and upset you would feel if a child of yours was falsely accused of rape. Or does the sentence "if my daughter was raped I'd be upset and outraged, if my sons were falsely accused of rape I'd be upset and outraged" have another meaning?

You can't dictate which part of a post you make people respond to and I really have no interest in what topics you get involved in on MN or how often you namechange, it is totally irrelevant to the conversation.

because there are people here who clearly know so much more than I do and my opinion has no value at all compared to the wisdom of so many others.

This is what happens when people discuss a topic. They put their point of view and opinions. You put yours. Sometimes people agree with you, sometimes they disagree with you. With 30 years professional experience, you must have experienced people disagreeing with you before?

Rage and upset do not take precedent over the legal process. People are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. This would be labelling an individual without due process of law. Only the Police have the powers to conduct low level intelligence gathering. Anything outside of that could be abused for vigilante purposes and responsible for destroying people's lives.

You would be sued as soon as this got out. Not only for GDPR data breaches but for liabel. And you'd lose big time. No government grant system would touch this with a barge pole as it undermines the defendant's rights.

Its a very bad idea. Take the emotion out of it and look for better ways to encourage victims to come forward and be supported through the system.

I speak as a rape survivor.

[quote unmarkedbythat]@shotby3armedbastards you were comparing the rage and upset you would feel if a child of yours was rape with the rage and upset you would feel if a child of yours was falsely accused of rape. Or does the sentence "if my daughter was raped I'd be upset and outraged, if my sons were falsely accused of rape I'd be upset and outraged" have another meaning?

You can't dictate which part of a post you make people respond to and I really have no interest in what topics you get involved in on MN or how often you namechange, it is totally irrelevant to the conversation.

because there are people here who clearly know so much more than I do and my opinion has no value at all compared to the wisdom of so many others.

This is what happens when people discuss a topic. They put their point of view and opinions. You put yours. Sometimes people agree with you, sometimes they disagree with you. With 30 years professional experience, you must have experienced people disagreeing with you before?[/quote]
I rest my case 🙄

@Upstartcrones

Rage and upset do not take precedent over the legal process. People are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. This would be labelling an individual without due process of law. Only the Police have the powers to conduct low level intelligence gathering. Anything outside of that could be abused for vigilante purposes and responsible for destroying people's lives.

You would be sued as soon as this got out. Not only for GDPR data breaches but for liabel. And you'd lose big time. No government grant system would touch this with a barge pole as it undermines the defendant's rights.

Its a very bad idea. Take the emotion out of it and look for better ways to encourage victims to come forward and be supported through the system.

I speak as a rape survivor.

Well said!

@shotby3armedbastards oh, right, you're one of those. Crack on then. I really haven't got time to waste on passive aggressive nonsense.

@unmarkedbythat what's 'one of those'? I've followed this thread for a little while and find you a bit angsty without reason

People are presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

It's not as simple as that. 'Innocent until proven guilty' is drummed into us as an absolute good but in reality there are all kinds of derogations from the principle. The obvious example is that any civil action (as opposed to criminal prosecution) does not require proof of the claim, just evidence on the balance of probabilities. In any event, 'innocent until proven guilty' ain't working for rape victims as it stands, is it? So I think we are at a point where we need to look at things differently. 'Innocent until proven guilty' as a notion of natural justice is fundamentally broken where its net effect is nearly always to stand in the way of bringing rapists to justice.

This would be labelling an individual without due process of law.

People can, and do, 'label' people (as in say negative things about them, and form judgements about them) all the time. This isn't, and shouldn't be the sole preserve of our fucked up legal system.

Only the Police have the powers to conduct low level intelligence gathering.

And that's working like total shit. The police are corrupt and misogynist. Their track record speaks for itself. If you honestly think reform is a possibility then good luck to you.

Anything outside of that could be abused for vigilante purposes and responsible for destroying people's lives.

Sadly, as various high-profile cases have shown, and as people on this thread have testified, unproven allegations of rape do not destroy men's lives. They stick a minor dent in them. What we need to make a difference are convictions.

You would be sued as soon as this got out. Not only for GDPR data breaches but for liabel. And you'd lose big time.

I've a working knowledge of defamation/libel (I've a legal background and occasionally have to 'dabble' in the area). I won't go into detail here (unless anyone really wants me to) but I think the risks around a libel claim would be manageable - there are a few mechanisms that could be used.

I know less about GDPR but my understanding is that its intent is to stop dodgy companies abusing people's private data, and not to shield rapists. The law is pretty good at recognising when statutes have unintended and unwelcome consequences, and adjusting accordingly.

No government grant system would touch this with a barge pole as it undermines the defendant's rights.

I agree totally. It would need to be privately funded.

Its a very bad idea. Take the emotion out of it and look for better ways to encourage victims to come forward and be supported through the system.

Cards on the table, I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not. But I think it is the wrong thing to dismiss it out of hand, and I think it should be explored. The existing system is completely failing, the situation is getting worse not better, and something drastic needs to happen.

Rape is a criminal charge therefore civil burden of proof doesn't apply. People are alleged rapists until convicted which is as it should be. A defendant is entitled to protection of law as well as the victim. To move away from this system moves into vigilante justice and the potential for abuse is significant. Everyone is entitled to due process of law. Your argument is based upon a philosophical debate of justice as opposed to the current situation. It is what it is and there is a framework in place. Do I think it supports victims? no, it certainly didn't support me. But do I want to throw away the presumption of innocence? no. It would make society extremely unsafe for all it's citizens and would mean people would be stripped of their basic human rights.

I actually know someone who was wrongly convicted of rape ironically. Wrongly convicted because the victim admitted she made it up afterwards but was not prepared to tell the police as she would be prosecuted. She said she told the lie because she didn't want her boyfriend to dump her because she'd had sex with someone else. The police were informed but were not interested. The man served 5 years in prison, lost everything.

Your assumption on GDPR is incorrect. Holding personal data and then sharing it without the individuals consent is an offence. The individual also has a right to be forgotten so can direct that their details are held without their consent and must be removed.

Having seen up close a miscarriage of justice and a life destroyed I would not want this.

Equally if my rapist were convicted I would not want any threat to that conviction to be available to the defence team. If information were leaked through social media the potential for it tainting a trial could be significant and could mean a guilty person walks free.

This three is triggering for me so I'm going to bow out

*thread

A significant number of MNers(38% at the moment) like it. That says a lot about a significant number of MNers

It most likely says that a society which makes rape and sexual assault almost always a punishment free crime will generate desperate responses.

So, you’re not confident enough to go to the police, but you would go to some random person and give them your personal details and someone else’s personal details, and then have them added to a database? And then what?

If you went to the police and he had had previous allegations made against him this would be flagged. But you can’t expect the police to step in and say “well, there’s this bloke in Scunthorpe who has been flagged on that database as having raped multiple women, but none of them have ever made the allegations officially. Best we bring him in anyway...”

IMO malicious allegations to the police are rare. But a database like this one would make it far easier, because the person in question would know nothing is actually going to happen to that information, so she could easily do it as a bit of revenge. Or alternatively a woman might claim to her friends that she’d been raped but wasn’t going to the police, and then her friends might say “the bastard should get picked up. I know, let’s all go and make an allegation on the database, and that will mean he’ll be picked up sooner.”

Also, if you make an allegation to the database and the man is pulled in once the number of allegations get to a certain level, shouldn’t you agree to then testify if you’ve actually made the allegation?