Rape allegation database

[Roosterbooster99]

Sorry, posting for traffic. To distill, I was raped by a man and I know he has raped other people. All so called Date Rape. I know he has done it to other women before and after what happened to me. But usually when one man rapes a lot of unconnected women, especially after a drink etc the women end up in silos, not knowing he’s done it to others, questioning their own memory, blaming themselves etc, etc, etc.

And I’m sure lots of women, like me, won’t report it. Because it’s her word against his most of the time, and who wants to destroy their lives for 4% convictioncrates.

What I want to do is create an online database. Only visible to staff/administrators, but it would mean if a man was habitually date raping, evidence would build up and flag him.

I’m seriously thinking about s

Maybe you should look into police procedure and find out what happens if the same person is reported multiple times. Is their data all joined up and do they do searches?

If not I would campaign for the police to start doing so. There’s no no way a private company would be allowed to do what you’re planning.

A friend was on jury duty a few years ago for an assault/grievous bodily harm case where the victim had ended up in a wheelchair.

The jury had a tough time deciding because there was no evidence the accused had done it, except the victim’s narrative, and in the end had to reach a not-guilty verdict.

Only after that not-guilty verdict was announced, did the jury find out that actually the accused person had been found guilty of a load of similar assaults and crimes in the past.

My friend was really emotional about it. If they’d known what he’d done before and therefore what kind of person he was, that would have definitely tipped the decision in the other direction. They had to face the fact that they’d let this very dangerous person walk free.

This was slightly off topic I know, I just mentioned it because I think the police / courts are perhaps not allowed to link past accusations (even convictions?) together to influence a decision, maybe someone with knowledge of law could correct me if wrong.

@Mrsemcgregor

This does already happen. You can (using SARC I believe) report a person for rape without having them arrested or starting an investigation. The police then keep tabs on if the name is mentioned multiple times. Then they would be able to open an investigation for serial rape.

As noted above you can do this already it's called anonymous intelligence. You can provide this information at a SARC - Seuxal Assault Referral Centre - they are run by NHS/Third Sector / Independent. Funded by the NHS/ . There is one in every police force area. They will collect intelligence from victims wishing to tell the police about their perpetrator without reporting and giving their name. This is called the Anonymous Intelligence Process.

Just report it to the police. That's what they are there for. If you don't want to, fine. Accept you aren't reporting. Social media and anonymous databases aren't a substitute for police reports.

Liars - that was NOT what I was saying

Totally disagree

I put earlier on here, anyone who reports, so that would be male, female or any other choice of gender/sex

Secondly, in this internet world it is easy to create multiple identities, avatars, catfish, call them what you will

You can report to crime stoppers anonymously and they can join the dots if the perp comes up again. However my main abuse has abused many and is well known for it, they told my parents that when I was a teen and simply told me to keep away from him. I officially reported on rape when I was an adult and while believed was told it would togo anywhere. So repeated accusations against one person or not, it’s still not likely to go anywhere.

My friend was really emotional about it. If they’d known what he’d done before and therefore what kind of person he was, that would have definitely tipped the decision in the other direction.

This is exactly why they don't tell juries about previous convictions. It biases them against the accused. It doesn't allow that some people learn from their mistakes. It would allow for a lower standard of evidence. "He's done it before, he must have done it this time".

@galgaf12

Appalling idea on many levels.

A significant number of MNers(38% at the moment) like it. That says a lot about a significant number of MNers.

That they think too many rapists get away with it? Yes how terrible to be angry about that.

I have seen the fall out from malicious accusations- not for rape but similar. It is horrendous. A tool that could lean in to this is dangerous and open to abuse and I can't coutenance it.

@KrusAkabusi thanks for your reply. I get the logic of second chances, however I think we should give jurors all the facts and guide and trust them to make a judgement.

“It biases them against the accused” But it makes it more likely they did commit the crime, just like other pieces of evidence that might not be conclusive in themselves but all need to be put together to come up with a likelihood of guilty-ness.

If you were wavering around the line of ‘reasonable doubt’ whilst not knowing anything about your defendant’s past, then to find out they were a convicted criminal should rightly, in my opinion, push you over the line.

Sorry as I said it is a bit off topic.

Sorry, but I disagree. Previous offences are, rightly, taken into consideration at sentencing. But each case should only be judged on the available evidence. "He's the type" isn't evidence, it's prejudicial.

Look at something like the George Floyd case. He was killed by police, and there was a wave of revulsion. Then it emerged that he was a convicted drug user and amongst certain people, the narrative switched to He Deserved It. Put someone like him in a court setting and tell the jury he's already a criminal. He'd have no chance of a fair trial.

@Mrsemcgregor SARC's do submit anonymous intelligence with consent when victims self refer (a sadly very small proportion of our client base). I have a few examples of when I've submitted anonymous intelligence and the police have been all over it ASAP asking if the victim is willing to report. That says to me they are known multiple times or with a notable history. There is already a system for sex workers, 'ugly mugs'. I admire your ideology and wish to help but as PP's have said there is scope for abuse. I wish I had the answer as you are right these rapists can flit from person to person, site to site with the dots not joined up but I think a different way is needed

Will have to agree to disagree @krisakabusi, I think it’s fair to include “he’s the type” or rather “he was the type” into the balance of probabilities, if he actually did do similar crimes in the past.

In the case I mentioned it was really obvious to my friend and the whole jury once they heard about the realm of previous convictions ‘oh fuck this poor victim was telling the truth and we’ve just let this maniac out who will probably now go and kill him/ hurt his family’.

They were really shocked as the defendant did not come across as a thug (well spoken etc) and it hadn’t crossed their minds that he could have been a serial offender.

(Not commenting on the GF case as he’s not the one being accused.)

A detective has a string of unsolved assaults in an area. He doesn't have a clue who did them, and the Inspector is getting pissed off. So he goes out and arrests the local alcoholic. There's no evidence, but he's done it before when he has a few drinks. The jury will convict him, because he's just a low life. When they hear about his previous, he's clearly guilty. Detective gets his arrest, Inspector happy, jury satisfied they've put another bad guy away. Can you not see how it would be massively open to abuse if you take away the presumption of innocence based on past behaviour?

Leaving aside the data protection issues, if the name of a particular individual was found to be on your list, I imagine you'd be looking at a major action for defamation of character.

@Roosterbooster99

Sorry, posting for traffic. To distill, I was raped by a man and I know he has raped other people. All so called Date Rape. I know he has done it to other women before and after what happened to me. But usually when one man rapes a lot of unconnected women, especially after a drink etc the women end up in silos, not knowing he’s done it to others, questioning their own memory, blaming themselves etc, etc, etc.

And I’m sure lots of women, like me, won’t report it. Because it’s her word against his most of the time, and who wants to destroy their lives for 4% convictioncrates.

What I want to do is create an online database. Only visible to staff/administrators, but it would mean if a man was habitually date raping, evidence would build up and flag him.

I’m seriously thinking about s

But you just said you wouldn't report it so it would be useless as no one would be filling it.

The only body that could administer this is the police and they effectively do this already for anything reported.

Would the OP support a database of women who make unsubstantiated allegations?

It's not just women though is it !

@krisakabusi I think the jury could be guided to understand that there was no evidence whatsoever the drunk had done it apart from that he is capable of doing it, I don’t think they would come to a guilty verdict in that case.
It could be abused but there’s protection for the past and future victims to consider as well as protection for the accused. If you’re a convicted criminal you might deserve a lower standard of evidence to convict you next time. Anyway thanks for your responses.

I’d like to pilot it initially with sex workers

This already exists. National Ugly Mugs

Also surely you would be prosecuted under malicious communications act or the defamation act

@AndAnotherUsername, when a friend of mine was raped, after his trial and conviction, the officer in charge of the case told us that 7 weeks before he attacked her, the man had been acquitted on a charge of attempted rape.

He also said that none of this was admissible in the rape trial, because he had been found guilty. I'm guessing this is still the case, although this happened in the early 1980s.

Won’t someone think of the Menz.

Because the big problem that needs fixing is women falsely alleging rape, isn’t it?

Ffs.

@LakieLady I am glad he was convicted second time round.

In my friends case she said it was prior convictions rather than accusations. I guess that could be abused as a few women could gang up on a man and repeatedly accuse him and the jury might think ‘no smoke without fire’ if they were told of previous accusations. Difficult one.

I guess that could be abused as a few women could gang up on a man and repeatedly accuse him and the jury might think ‘no smoke without fire’ if they were told of previous accusations. Difficult one.

But let's be honest, given all the stats show that false rape allegations are vanishingly rare, this is really not likely, is it? And if the man doesn't have an alibi for at at least one of a 'set' of allegations such as this, I'd be highly inclined to think they were true

Yeeeeah, no, this is an awful idea (and I say this as a woman who has experienced rape)

If you feel able to though, please report it. Or at least speak to someone re counselling. Sorry this happened to you.