To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

They were criticised because, as I said, education is seen as a special case. But it's really only hypocritical if they've personally argued that private schooling is morally wrong. I don't know whether they have.

There are some proper teacher lefties at my DC school, although they generally keep their politics to themselves
At my old Private school our Maths teacher was known as “Red Ralph”

Conservatives aren’t dogmatically opposed to public services, although fairly extreme right wing views are dominant in the party at the moment.

I am surprised by someone who considers themselves so left-wing as to be a socialist working in a private school, in the same way I’d be surprised to find that person working for a hedge fund or in wealth management at Goldman Sachs. The cognitive dissonance must be painful.

@Southwestten I never said I disapprove of private education - what have I said that is hypocritical? I never said that wealthy people should nevertheless use state education (I know other people have said that, but not me). You are ascribing beliefs to me that I never professed and are then criticising me for not following them. I am not obliged to go along with your fantasy of what I ought to believe.

I believe state education should be better. I believe it is totally inadequately funded and that the tories are responsible for the shambles in the state education sector. I am not ashamed of opting out of it because I can afford to do so, but that won't stop me being on the side of improving it for those who can't afford to opt out. Please identify a thing I am doing that is contrary to my beliefs?

But it's really only hypocritical if they've personally argued that private schooling is morally wrong

Diane Abbott criticised colleagues for sending their dc to selective schools then did so herself - according to Wikipedia.
That’s pretty hypocritical.

Problem with the same diet analogy is that those with the power to improve the education experience and out comes are the ones who need to eat the same diet with the rest of the nation. They are not, instead they are sending their children to the ’posh state’ schools mentioned above- Greycoat, Coloma etc.
The fight should not be against the parents who have opted out of state. I opted out. there was nothing I could’ve done to make my dc state school into the sort of school they are currently at. I joined the pta, was school governor, did volunteer reading with the younger children etc, I also have a full time demanding job. When the opportunity to make suggestions arose, either the school, the other parents were the stumbling blocks. Sometimes even offended e.g ”What do we need that for?” and quite a few vocal parents who just didn’t share your way of thinking. They liked the status quo, although, complained about effects of said status quo. They were resistant to change.

Several friend parents I know were in the same boat in our particular area and all of us except two families opted out in the end. Many of the parents at the indies were also there for the same reasons.

What schools need is more investment from government, less bureaucracy and a radical shake up in policy to change the whole education experience.

Kiho if you feel so strongly about improving state education you could send your dc there and get involved in supporting the school.
Maybe even contribute to the school each year what you would be paying in fees.

Ok, Shimmy’s post answers my suggestion that Kiho gets involved with the school - obviously no point if parents are unable to make improvements if all suggestions are blocked.

@SideEyeing

You're not buying better teachers. Quite the opposite in some cases. You're buying a "better" calibre of students (including behaviour, atittude to learning etc but mostly as a by product of professional parents and privilege) and a future contacts book for your child.

I say that as someone who was privately educated and now teaches in the state secondary sector.

I agree

in the same way I’d be surprised to find that person working for a hedge fund or in wealth management at Goldman Sachs

Emily I agree with all of your post. However maybe left wing ‘moles’ go to work for Goldman Sachs so they can expose the place for the wicked, brutal hotbed of capitalism that it is.
Not sure what happens when the mole starts making a lot of money and starts enjoying its fruits.........

Why would my DS being undersupported and overwhelmed at an overcrowded comprehensive, with his SEN issues not getting the mitigation he needs because the school has more SEN pupils than they can cope with, be helpful? The amount I pay in fees donated to the school he would otherwise have gone to would have amounted to about £7 per pupil per year increase in funding, when what would be needed to bring it up to a point where it could actually offer an adequate education would be more like £2-3k more per pupil per year. Such a generous act would have virtually no effect - and making a generous gift that doesn't actually make a difference to anyone is frankly stupid, I am not an idiot. I would have absolutely no objection to taxes rising sufficiently for all state schools to get that level of funding increase but it is ridiculous to suggest that one person can do it on their own - it has to be a cultural shift towards valuing education and the last general election showed that as a country, we frankly do not value it enough. There is nothing I could do as a supportive parent of a child at the school which would tackle the fact that the school is chronically underfunded and overwhelmed. Anything I could do by way of voting in favour of, or campaigning towards, policies that value education - I can do just as much of whether or not I currently have a child enrolled at a state school. I have to live in the world as it is right now, not some lovely utopia. I have to balance how I use my resources, donating some to support those less fortunate and using the rest to benefit my own family, and unless you are advocating extreme communism and depriving all people of the opportunity to use their talents to earn money to better their lifestyle, that has to be OK.

My DS also has a dental issue that is not covered by NHS treatment because it isn't extreme enough - so if I want that to be treated I would have to pay for it to be done privately. Because we are paying school fees, we can't afford that treatment and he will have to put up with flashing a somewhat chaotic mouthful when he smiles. If we had chosen for him to go to a state school I could have spent that money on him getting better dental treatment than the NHS will provide to the general population. Would you also have considered that to be "hypocritical" if I say that I think NHS dentistry is underfunded and choose to opt out and use a private option - if not, why is it different?

Also agree with everything Kiho has said.

I went to a private school. Teachers weren’t better (I trained as a teacher and now have kids at state schools to compare).

Classes were smaller. All kids were middle class. Behaviour very good. Focus in class good. So we learned our material. But looking back we missed out.

Most of the stuff we’re taught in school is outdated, useless for the real world or just wrong.

I wanted my kids to be equipped for the real world. Resilient. Comfortable with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds. Not having that held me, and all my school mates, back.

People skills. Real life social skills are far more useful than the ability to parrot facts.

All my grandchildren attended a private prep school. The reason for this was my oldest grandchild had learning difficulties and dyslexia. The state school he was at had a lot of kids who couldnt speak English and they were taking up all the time of the teachers and teaching assistants. My grandson was left staring out of the window most days. It came to a head when he said he was stupid and may as well kill himself because the teachers didnt care about him. My daughter moved the kids to a small private prep school and both sets of grandparents helped out. With only 10 pupils in the class he thrived. The teachers were no better or worse than the teachers at the state school. The difference was he was able to get the help he needed in a smaller class.

@Dustballs funny, I have the opposite experience. i went to state schools, and experienced all kinds of people. It certainly was an experience... Got bullied, beaten up, had my hair set on fire by kids from problem backgrounds, and my bag pissed on by rich kids because it had the wrong label.
It probably made me stronger in the long run, but it was hell, every single year. Yes, that’s the real world, but see no need for a 4 year old to learn that quite yet.
I want school to be a safe place for my kids many state schools aren’t because kids can’t be removed, and bad behaviour gets rewarded with tons of attention.

@Dustballs Outdated curriculum? Sounds like you went to a terrible private school. How did you manage to access any exams?

Ok Kiho, well you’ve argued your case very persuasively.

You are too kind @Southwestten
Fancy a or or and a natter about something less contentious?

Kiho thank you for your nice response.

My son would have down better at private school small classes he had sever ADHD and dyspraxia and dyslexia His headmaster shouted in the entrance why should I have another schools cast offs .He asked us if we smacked him .No SEN policy’s in school spent more time home alone being excluded. And no chance of passing exams the county took years to statement him so messed it up for him and in hindsight moved to a cheaper house and paid for him .

Despite all my comments no one can deny that state secondaries are fairly brutal Experiences

My 12 year old is school refusing
I genuinely don’t know if he would be better at private , maybe yes
Maybe no

@timeforanew Maybe it’s luck of the draw. My 2 are happy. They’re at inner city schools with lots of issues etc

One of my children has SEN. But she’s one of the team and feels very safe there and extremely happy.

I wanted my kids to be equipped for the real world. Resilient. Comfortable with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds

Hmm. I went to a state comprehensive then a private school for sixth form. I certainly met people from very different backgrounds to me. I wouldn’t say it made me comfortable with them. There were some absolute scumbags at my secondary. It means I recognise and can tolerate such people; am aware of how quickly the wrong look or comment can escalate aggression so play safely around such people. Is that what you mean?

It’s not a warm, fuzzy love of the underclass if that’s what you’re thinking. Far from it.

I wanted my kids to be equipped for the real world. Resilient. Comfortable with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds

😂 What a poetic view of the difference between state and private schools!

At the comprehensive school I went to, I was bullied for years and developed self-esteem issues that have dogged me for my whole life. Is this what you mean by being equipped for the real world and comfortable with people from all sorts of backgrounds?

Honestly, what a load of bollocks.

I absolutely wanted my children to be resilient and prepared to be able to deal with everyone in society. They are both clever. They are both Oxbridge. They are kind and moral and sensible and incredibly well educated. They deal well with all sorts of people. When we went to a secondary school.for two years she dealt well with the violent and dysfunctional at school. It did diddly squat for her self esteem and mental health.