To think at a private school, it’s not the teachers that are better...

[Caitlin555]

....it’s just you are less likely to get the bad behaviour, and more likely to have smaller class sizes?

It drives me mad that there’s this perception that the teachers at private schools are so much better than at state. They are not. In fact, you don’t even need a teaching qualification to teach at a private school.

It is obviously easier to get good results and control a class when you’ve got a smaller class of (probably) better behaved, more affluent kids whose parents want them to be there and to not have the social problems that some schools contend with.

I wish parents would just be honest about why they are sending their kids to x private school - it might be the small class sizes, it might be the facilities, it might be that it is super selective - but don’t make it about the teachers as that’s an insult to those amazing teachers who work hard every day to make a difference at state schools.

And no, I’m not a teacher.

*will say rather than won’t say (long day!!!)

Agree with @Gmom - bad teachers disappear very swiftly at private schools but can take years to dismiss from a state school.
And yes, the difference in lockdown was huge. Also now the kids are back, the ones in isolation are joining in lessons remotely. None of the local state schools seem to have organised this yet.

Yes I’ve seen two teachers removed rather quickly from one private school I worked at. No way would a school risk it’s reputation by keeping hold of bad teachers.

Private schools are much like any other business. You have to adapt to survive. If a private school did nothing during lockdown they deserve to go under. It probably just hastened their decline.

I've never said that about our son and school. We chose it for small class sizes and him needing more attention. Not ashamed of that

I agree that the teachers at private school are no better than those at state school but I think it is crazy that that is the case. Given the price of private schools, they should be guaranteeing amazing teachers (in addition to smaller class sizes, better facilities etc) - although measuring how good a teacher is is very subjective so I don't know how they would do it in reality

I work in a deprived state school and we have managed, successfully, to provide full lessons online, as well as creating, and delivering hard copies of lessons to pupils with no technology access (about 20% of our cohort), during lockdown.

Every single lesson I teach is now put online for all my pupils who are isolating - as well as a hard version being ready for those Who need it.

What infuriates me, is when people blame the schools for this disparity. The government advised that the curriculum be collapsed during lockdown. The government told schools, pupils couldn’t be penalised for not doing set work. The vast majority of state schools followed government advice in this. Of course Private schools offered more - they have more money to essentially make this switch immediately, they have more certainties in the way their pupils access education and to be perfectly honest, also need to convince parents why they should still continue to pay fees when the school is shut.

Had the government advised state schools to continue to offer a full, offline education then it would have been done in the best way they could, with the limited funds and resources that are allocated to them.

I don’t doubt over all, private schools provide a better education to be honest. Money buys you the best of everything, and I’d never deny anyone the opportunity or right, to pay for a better education, or health service, if they can afford it, but the sneering at state schools, who quite frankly are under funded and full of teachers often near breaking point, boils my piss.

My kids’ private school teachers were working flat out but I got the impression the state school teachers were not doing much.

As a state school teacher who has never worked harder than in lockdown I wonder if you have based this judgement on reliable first-hand accounts or simply on the lazy tropes that have done the rounds of AIBU since late March.

I might further point out that in addition to ensuring that our students had full coverage of the curriculum (and we were asked by our very supportive parents to provide LESS work because students were struggling to keep up) we spent a huge amount of our time doing absolutely everything we could to safeguard our most vulnerable students. If, therefore, the average MNer feels that their child didn't quite get enough individual attention from their teachers during lockdown it is entirely possible that that teacher was liaising with other agencies as the only point of contact for incredibly vulnerable children trapped in some desperate home situations, whilst also keeping school open and providing some normality for the children of key workers.

Yes I’ve seen two teachers removed rather quickly from one private school I worked at. No way would a school risk it’s reputation by keeping hold of bad teachers

really??????

@ThanksItHasPockets thanks for the additional insight. My impression that state school teachers didn’t teach during lockdown was based on my neighbours with kids at a local (oversubscribed) CofE school that received no live lessons or marking. Just some optional worksheets for the parents to manage. Whereas mine had hours of live lessons every day and everything marked/graded within 24 hours. Perhaps as you say the neighbours’ kids’ teachers had to prioritise less fortunate kids than those of my neighbours.

@ThanksItHasPockets to repeat myself, it was very, very regional dependent. Schools around here did fuck all (one head did send a mail aroudnto parents telling the, that teachers are unable to provide any work for children as they “understandably have to teach their own children first” and couldn’t be asked to work and teach their children - that went down well with the in the majority working parents... hardly any keyworker kids in as well, very few disadvantaged kids). Some teachers worked like crazy - but again, it is a disgrace for the school system that organising meals was left to teachers. Some teachers did bugger all (see above). Most did some.
In our region, the ones that worked like crazy were in the majority in the private sector (reasons: see above).

[quote Gmom]@ThanksItHasPockets thanks for the additional insight. My impression that state school teachers didn’t teach during lockdown was based on my neighbours with kids at a local (oversubscribed) CofE school that received no live lessons or marking. Just some optional worksheets for the parents to manage. Whereas mine had hours of live lessons every day and everything marked/graded within 24 hours. Perhaps as you say the neighbours’ kids’ teachers had to prioritise less fortunate kids than those of my neighbours.[/quote]
I think it is also probably the case that your children's teachers could be confident that their students all had reliable internet connections and access to a laptop or PC.

Yes, we spent the week of 16 March frantically lending out laptops and 4G dongles to some of our most deprived kids. We had to plan lessons which could be accessed and completed from a smartphone if necessary.

Nothing at all to do with teachers.
You’d be paying for better contacts, peers and generally better social everything including activities while in school, it’s who you know I’ve not met many privately schooled people in crappy jobs.
Everyone seems to help everyone out. I wasn’t privately schooled, I had many friends who were and I would consider sending my daughter, if only for the fact she’d have to not deal with so much chavery and emerge better connected.
I had a lot of chavs in my school, hugely diverse and a big secondary school. Most kids were nice but the ‘gangster kids’ that made it difficult for everyone, are just not present in private schools.

I haven’t read all 24 pages, but in answer to the OP, at my daughter’s private school you can read the perspective and see where every teacher went to school and what their degree was. Oxbridge predominates with a sprinkling of other very good universities. Teachers are teaching the subjects that they studied rather than having degrees in teaching itself.
For me, this is a better standard than the state schools I had available in my area.

Not necessarily better teachers. But they can do better teaching with smaller classes and selective intake.

DD had absolutely fuck all from school (state) during lockdown. I had 2 brief phone calls and a few sheets from the internet.

DHs family member sends her DS to a private school and had full time online lessons throughout. DH is furious about the difference but like I said, if you’ve paid for it then they need to give it to you. No guarantee those lessons were worthwhile though.

And without having to pretend diversity and equality trump attainment.

My son is at a state primary school, all years at his school had daily online live lessons, prerecorded lessons and printed activity packs were delivered to all students. The activity packs were designed so children without internet access could complete them, when the first pack was delivered it came with necessary stationery as well.

There are a fair few public schools around here who had almost no provision during lockdown, a neighbours daughter couldn’t even access keyworker provision as her public school decided not to open at all.

I went to a non flashy (facilities were a bit ropey - certainly since all the schools in England were rebuilt, many state schools have better facilities) but decently academic private school

Class sizes were very average up to GCSE level (30)

The kids of below average intelligence had been filtered out by the entrance exam (though a couple slipped through the net)

All the parents were, by definition, very interested in their child's education and supportive of the school

There were fewer socioeconomic issues going on (though we still managed a handful of girls who gave birth while still at school) so fewer distractions of that variety.

There's far too much movement of teachers between the state and private sector for me to believe the teachers are any better in the private sector

Money buys you the choice...

I was born & grew up in London, went to state schools... Primary was excellent, in advanced classes etc but Secondary school was terrible, hardly anyone cared, learned nothing for the first three years as it was Comprehensive education, all that advancement in Primary school was lost whilst others caught up! Alumni's were the Kray twins & later the Pakistani schoolgirl brides, Begum Et Al. who run off to Syria.

I moved out of London to have a family, no way was I going to try to raise children in that environment that London had become.

I still have some friends who live there but unfortunately, they are not in a position to choose.

Hard work and earnings gave me that choice, not enough for DD to be educated privately but I knew that the village Primary school & local Middle/Upper schools in local town were ranked highly and that the area does not suffer from the social problems that are out of control in London.

So I would say do your homework, if you pay for private education it does not guarantee a better education because there are lots of variables to be taken into consideration.

No they don’t need certain qualifications but they really want to teach and are passionate about it so they are not doing it just for a wage like most teachers at state school. They regularly don’t get as much pay either and didn’t moan when they were told to come off furlough and go back to work. They also know that because the parents are paying, they back the teachers up not threaten to punch them because they upset ones little darling.

Do I think teachers in private schools are better than state? No, but I think most teachers choose to teach (if they are fortunate enough to be in a position to choose) in whatever environment suits their own priorities or principles. It’s truly unfair to disparage one or the other. I think generally if you send your kids to a private school you make the assumption that the school will have the best teachers in role that they can possibly find as the exam results will depend upon it (and as a consequence the reputation of the school and its ability to attracted more parents to pay fees), however, I don’t think many private school parents are ignorant of the fact that small class sizes, engaged students and excellent access to resources makes a huge difference to outcomes.

It would be great if the amount of passion you see on threads around private schools was devoted to lobbying our MPs to fund better state schools as it really is in everyone’s interest to have great state schools.

I don't think anyone believes that the teachers are better - some may be (lots of private primary schools have specialist provision in some areas, some private secondaries are able to make more use of eg teachers with a PHD who actually wouldn't want to or be good at teaching across a large number of age or t ability ranges, but who are wonderful at teaching advanced sixth form groups who require more of a tutor relationship part time) but I suspect it is likely to be very much even given the movement between the two.

There is a difference in class sizes, sometimes in facilities and often in parental expectations and level of support (this is not a criticism of parents who chose state school - we are not there yet and are undecided, but I have lots of teacher friends in both sectors) that can translate to behaviour (in my state school, behaviour was so awful that I taught myself 4 GCSE subjects from the revision guides and promptly left at sixth form with a scholarship to a private school!) and also to opportunities (eg your child doesn't get access to online learning or extension exercises in lockdown because lots of other parents couldn't manage it).

I do think that lots of state schools are excellent and clearly many have done well in lockdown. But of the friends of school age kids I know, the private schools have done overwhelmingly better than the state ones. Obviously, lots of this is to do with the resources of parents and teachers and really little can be done about it.

BUT the fact that private schools are providing a fee paid service does sometimes make an important difference in the effort made to keep parents happy. Those private schools who didn't do much over lockdown will be experiencing parents voting with their feet, but many in the state system do not have a choice.

@randomer - yes one was marched off the premises just after lunchtime for allowing the students to disrespect school property.

The other one just was cutting it, couldn’t control the class and no one ever really knew what happened but they were there in the morning and by the afternoon other teachers were covering the class and we never saw him again.

To be fair if you can’t control a class at private school then you are pretty useless as a teacher.

This is secondary level through not primary.

Teachers in private schools don't have to have a teaching qualification so it just shows what adifference smaller class sizes makes.